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Featured Science ... NOT God ...

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by NewGuyOnTheBlock, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    I've tried reasoning with you and I just get disjointed waffle (waffle with word salad :) ) for my trouble. How about you try using reasoning, just for a change?
     
  2. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    SOME are wise enough to tell the difference and SOME are stupid!

    Again, let me re say it, since you are not "wise enough" to hear what i actually said. SOMETIMES God enlightens a few people. Sometimes he lets man figure things out.

    Also, again, if God stepped in EVERYTIME there was suffering, hed be taking away liberty and hed be crippling us. Your not "wise enough" to comprehend this simple, logical point.

    Again, a failure to realize false prophets vs true.

    False misrepresentation.

    Logic, reason, time, intuition, knowledge.

    Religion is like that. It is not always a smooth progress towards the truth, but nothing else has come forward to overturn religion.

    I dont care about "some religions". I care about MY religion. DNA does not disprove my religion. It PROVES my religion.

    Your not grateful at all. Thats an utter mockery! You do nothing but complain at and about God! If God did step in everytime you suffer or are about to do something stupid in your life, youd complain saying "let me have liberty for once! Let me figure something out!"

    Stop lying to yourself.

    Science isnt a teacher, just as religion isnt a teacher. People who have brains, figure things out with a combination of logic, reason, intuition, experience, experimentation come to conclusions and THEY teach something. Simetimes that something is true, sometimes it isnt. And both of those sometimes are both under the umbrella of religion or science!

    The difference was known. They did not believe that. Thats your interpretation of there words.

    Again, gunhole on your misrepresentation. No, the earth being the center of the universe was not what the bible said nor was it understood that way. You won't find one passage saying otherwise.

    Thats simply false.

    Yea, i get that. But, you missed it, false and true prophets.

    BOTH. We do BOTH.

    Thats simply false and i get tired of hearing this "scientists" as if "religionists" cant test stuff. There just labels! The reality is, both are people.

    Some things have been answered, some have not, yet keep being pretended they have. Thats a problem.

    Thats false, weve had this debate before. SOME scientists do believe its actually a code and granted some believe its not.

    Ill say to you what i said to the other guy.

    You do nothing but complain at and about God! If God did step in everytime you suffer or are about to do something stupid in your life, youd complain sayong "let me have liberty for once! Let me figure something out!"

    And with that, im running out of time, i got to go to work. Have a great day! :D
     
    #42 Jollybear, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  3. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Just a side point... Isaac Newton, one of the smartest men who ever lived, loved science. I’m sure you’d agree.

    He also loved the Bible.

    What he didn’t like, were the religious institutions!


    You really can’t blame the Bible, just because it’s been misrepresented and misinterpreted— by both its supporters, and its detractors.

    As for Hitchen’s saying, ‘Heaven has folded it’s hands’ .... the Bible provides the explanation (I.e., why God has, for the most part, not intervened in human suffering).

    If you want to understand why, I can link an article.

    BTW, I did enjoy some aspects of that video.
     
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  4. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    The real point to take away here is that people DID believe that Earth was the center of the universe for a long span of time. And they did so in exactly the way that people believe in the stories presented as the underpinnings of religion. And that is - without proper evidence, and based only on what they were told by someone else.

    So do you see how it is related? The same sort of thinking must necessarily be employed to believe that the Earth is the center of the universe that is employed to believe that God created the universe from nothingness, or that Jesus rose from the dead and floated up into the clouds, etc. etc. etc. etc.
     
    #44 A Vestigial Mote, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
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  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Don't like watching videos. Can anyone tell me if the video actually covers religion or if it is yet another one of those shallow presentations that conflates religion with Christianity, monotheism, or a bunch of other things that don't actually apply to religion as a whole? If it actually addresses non-Western religions and/or new religious movements I might be bothered to watch it. Otherwise, meh...
     
  6. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    It conflates religion with Christianity.
     
  7. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    Newton, great scientist as he undoubtedly was, was not god(!), his science didn't make him immune from the most prevalent superstition of his culture and time.
     
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  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    A side point to your side point

    Newton was wrong: Scientists dismiss Newton's theory of gravity and warn Einstein is next | Science | News | Express.co.uk
     
  9. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    But you do like institutionalized religion.

    Do you suppose Newton would have been smart enough to
    give up alchemy if he could br shown real chemistry?

    And surely he had the intelligence( never shown by
    contemporary fundies) to realize that genesis is just
    a fairy tale when shown relevant data.

    After all, an intelligent man who actually loves the bible
    would surely want to love it for what it is, not for what he
    can pretzel it into the way all the religions do.

    Oh, and not just that-an honest investigator who does his
    due dligence never clings to garbage when it is shown for
    what it is. Actually, anyone with a bit of dignity would not either.
     
    #49 Audie, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  10. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Religion bad, people stupid, Genesis not true! Live in darkness, religion, boooo. 16thC wow, did you see that dude totally science the heck out that telescope bro? Facts! Wisdom! Science FTW! Man on the moon! In your face religion! Pow!
     
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  11. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Active Member

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    Now something about definitions versus usage.
    Once in dictionaries you could find the following - Atheism: Amoral.
    Does that make it a fact that atheism is amoral. Not, dictionaries and definitions are about how words are used. Not that is a fact or true.

    So here is how I learned that the word "real" works:
    Imagine a lake. It is not a real lake, but it is real that you can imagine a lake. Now imagine 2 ducks in the lake. One is a real duck and the other one is not real. It is a decoy duck, but it is a real decoy duck.

    So here is the absurd usage of a definition as a fact. ChristineM means non-existent. See, it is a fact that ChristineM doesn't exist. The definition says so. ;)

    Words are tricky. The meaning of the word "real" is context dependent and not objective.
     
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  12. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I'm working my way through these, but it is clear already that this guy doesn't really understand what it means to do science. So, for example, when he notes that Newton was a natural Philosopher, he failed to note that Newton actually *did* science: observation, hypothesis formation, hypothesis testing, modification of hypothesis. That *is* the scientific method.

    He does have a point in that the *words* religion and science have changed over time. If you don't want to think of this as a war between science and religion, think of it as a war between skepticism and faith.

    There were *very* few people who actually did the scientific method prior to 1600. I can think of al-Haytham, for example. Natural Philosophy was mostly NOT science simply because the idea of testing via observation was absent.
     
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  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Ok, you go by what you imagine, i will use dictionary definitions as accepted across the world

    Atheism is a straw man.

    Then you use contradiction to describe real. Imagination is imagination, not reality. You may imagine pugs could fly, it doesn't mean the price of pork would take off.

    Now in reality, the lake is a real lake, one duck us a real living duck, one duck us a facsimile. No context involved in reality
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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  15. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Why does this question say "God" but the OP says "religion".

    Not all religions know God or speak on His behalf.

    The God I know is a God of Science.
     
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  16. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Biblical Scholarship exposer?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  17. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I like what philosopher Ken Wilber has to say about this. I paraphrase;

    'Narrow Science' trumps 'Narrow Religion' but an integrative 'Broad Religion-Science' trumps them both.
     
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  18. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    True, in 17th century the vast majority if the population wore bible blinkers. Thank god ;-) for progress
     
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  19. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Active Member

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    Reason is not objective as such. It is a process in a brain, which produces "that it makes sense", but that is dependent on what you take for granted. Reason is the process and what you take for granted provides the result. To you religion doesn't make sense. I accept that. But you are not the judge for all humankind. Your reasoning don't have to be mine and in reverse.
     
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  20. NewGuyOnTheBlock

    NewGuyOnTheBlock Cult Survivor

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    I said "most". This was not an all-inclusive statement. There will always be non-atheists who conflate all atheists into one lump sum just as there will always be non-christians who assume all christians are the same, etc. Using the word "most" was intentional to help prevent exactly what you are accusing me of doing.

    I was going to respond to this list, but thankfully, a couple others did it already. By the way, I grew up in a Pentacostal-type environment. I have heard multitudes of claims of miraculous healings. Never seen one though. Neither have you.

    The YECs and Biblical Literalists should take heed to these words. Not all Christians believe in 7 day creation or a worldwide flood. Those that do make the entirety of Christianity look quite foolish.

    Where religion -- Christianity in particular here -- fails is when it does. The Bible does give explanations on "how things work". It tells us to slaughter doves and spread the blood around as a treatment for leprosy, for example. It tells us that bats are birds and whales are fish, thus upending the classification systems of modern biology.

    I have less frustration with most sects of Toaism and Buddhism, for example, because these belief systems do not make such scientific claims then feign innocence then scream "persecution" when they're told that they're wrong.

    That doesn't make your version of BS "true". You know, I rather liked the idea of believing I was in the palm of the hand of an omnipotent god. Liking that idea and that idea mattering to me, didn't make that idea true.

    What does "love" have to do with religion? "Love" brings others together (You know, I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony!) Religion is among the most divisive forces known to man; which is contrary to love.

    Yes, yes, and you love to play with words as it feeds your ego.

    You do understand that dictionaries are descriptive and not prescriptive, yes? That words are defined according to how people are using those words, and is not an authority source on what those words are supposed to mean?

    You should also understand that a lake being "real" and it being "real" that you can imagine one is a grotesque false equivocation, right?

    Nevermind ...

    Then why has not one scientific achievement in all of humanity stemmed from reading his word?
     
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