Science, Matter, Consciousness

[Fool]

so will science have to change matter first in order to discover new things and recreate them before having consciousness? or will consciousness have to change before the matter is discoverable?


which came first? consciousness or matter for knowledge/science to increase?

 

[Altfish]

so will science have to change matter first in order to discover new things and recreate them before having consciousness? or will consciousness have to change before the matter is discoverable?


which came first? consciousness or matter for knowledge/science to increase?

Do you never give up?

I'm not sure I have a clue what you are on about?? Why do they need to change matter?
Science has created the new Covid vaccines; science is good.

 

[ChristineM]

so will science have to change matter first in order to discover new things and recreate them before having consciousness? or will consciousness have to change before the matter is discoverable?


which came first? consciousness or matter for knowledge/science to increase?

Take a look at the 1st law of thermodynamics

 

[metis]

so will science have to change matter first in order to discover new things and recreate them before having consciousness? or will consciousness have to change before the matter is discoverable?

"Consciousness" involves waves of energy, and it's also energy that composes matter. However, not all forms of energy are the same or produce the same results.

which came first? consciousness or matter for knowledge/science to increase?

It appears waves of energy tied in with sub-atomic particle(s) likely was/were first, but then we don't know where it/they came from.

IOW, there's no way we can answer the question with assurance that our answer is correct.

 

[Polymath257]

As far as I can see, there was matter for at least 11 billion years before there was anything approaching consciousness.

 

[Fool]

Do you never give up?

I'm not sure I have a clue what you are on about?? Why do they need to change matter?
Science has created the new Covid vaccines; science is good.

Science apart from consciousness didn't create the vaccine. Consciousness discovered the structure and restructured/altered the matter/form's relationships to creat an immune response that wasn't as lethal

 

[Fool]

Take a look at the 1st law of thermodynamics

Take a look at the quantum no hiding theorem

 

[ChristineM]

Take a look at the quantum no hiding theorem

Link please and pray tell what has different information systems to do with matter?

 

[Altfish]

Science apart from consciousness didn't create the vaccine. Consciousness discovered the structure and restructured/altered the matter/form's relationships to creat an immune response that wasn't as lethal

Words and confusion

 

[ChristineM]

Science apart from consciousness didn't create the vaccine.

Ehh? The scientific method. Scientific understanding. Scientific knowledge,. Evolutionary science. Immunology. Biology. Genetics. Scientific research. Perhaps more.

All sounds petty sciency to me

And what has self awareness and awareness of one's personal environment to do with the price pf fish?

 

[Fool]

Link please and pray tell what has different information systems to do with matter?

it basically states that information cannot be destroyed. it can only be tranformed or to another system


information is energy that has relationships to other energy and creates a form. what you call matter.


https://phys.org/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html

 

[Fool]

Words and confusion

it took consciousness to recreate the form. it didn't mutate and become a vaccine in itself

 

[Fool]

Ehh? The scientific method. Scientific understanding. Scientific knowledge,. Evolutionary science. Immunology. Biology. Genetics. Scientific research. Perhaps more.

All sounds petty sciency to me

And what has self awareness and awareness of one's personal environment to do with the price pf fish?

you act as if even humans were not even involved.


it took awareness of something to recreate. things that aren't aware cannot be aware of otherness or even self

 

[Fool]

As far as I can see, there was matter for at least 11 billion years before there was anything approaching consciousness.

that is of the known created. what before that? what created the created universe?


how can an unaware system create an aware system? how can energy having no awareness create energy relationships of different forms.

how can in-form-ation occur and then simply disappear, or become uninformed?

 

[Polymath257]

that is of the known created. what before that? what created the created universe?

1. Why do you think the universe was created? I see no evidence of that.

2. Why do you think there was anything before the universe? Since time is part of the universe, that seems unlikely.

how can an unaware system create an aware system? how can energy having no awareness create energy relationships of different forms.

Yes, I think an unaware system can lead to systems that are aware. The point is that all physical systems interact in strong ways with their environment. And that, in complex structures like the brain, produces awareness as we know it.

how can in-form-ation occur and then simply disappear, or become uninformed?

As I see it, every causal relation produces new information. At the very least, it produces the information that the causes existed and interacted in the right way to produce the effect.

And, if you look at it more closely, this is exactly how ALL information is produced: by some sort of causal relationship.

 

[Polymath257]

This is true, but you have to know about the whole quantum system for this to be valid. In practice, because of irreversible interactions at the macroscopic level, information is produced and lost all the time.

 

[Fool]

1. Why do you think the universe was created? I see no evidence of that.

you claimed a span of 11 billions years. a created thing has a beginning and an end. time is irrelevant to an infinite. space/time is relevant to those things that are measurable. something that has no contrast is an infinite because there is nothing to measure it against

2. Why do you think there was anything before the universe? Since time is part of the universe, that seems unlikely.

an infinite, uncreated thing isn't measurable. earthly time is an illusion in regards to something immeasurable as the universe; if you believe the universe wasn't created.

you can't have it both ways

Yes, I think an unaware system can lead to systems that are aware. The point is that all physical systems interact in strong ways with their environment. And that, in complex structures like the brain, produces awareness as we know it.

but the universe didn't create time. that only arose with humans in relationship to their earthly experience and not the universe as a whole

As I see it, every causal relation produces new information. At the very least, it produces the information that the causes existed and interacted in the right way to produce the effect.

And, if you look at it more closely, this is exactly how ALL information is produced: by some sort of causal relationship.

so relationships create consciousness but consciousness creates relationships too. it created a time that is earthly in relationship to the sun and not a relationship to jupiter's relationship to the sun


earthly time isn't relevant to most of the universe

 

[ChristineM]

it basically states that information cannot be destroyed. it can only be tranformed or to another system


information is energy that has relationships to other energy and creates a form. what you call matter.


https://phys.org/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html

So nothing different than i have already said.

And more precisely, thats quantum information

 

[Fool]

So nothing different than i have already said.

And more precisely, thats quantum information

all matter is nothing but energy in varying levels of vibration. it works from the micro all the way up to the macro and back down again.


but you missed one tiny detail, matter is information, matter = information. varying levels of enlightenment.


even the word information has a synonym, it's material


know thyself


Synonyms of information | Thesaurus.com

 

[ChristineM]

you act as if even humans were not even involved.


it took awareness of something to recreate. things that aren't aware cannot be aware of otherness or even self

Where does evolutionary science mean not evolved?

One has to know what one is aware of for it to have any benefit. In this case the scientific method, scientific understanding, scientific knowledge, evolutionary science, immunology, biology, genetics and scientific research all help to home in on a solution.