Science in the Poems of Robert Burns

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some questions for all the people who like to make claims about "science in the Qur'an" and "science in the Bible."

Consider the following lines from "A Red, Red Rose" by Robert Burns:

Till a' the seas gang dry, my dear,
And the rocks melt wi' the sun;
And I will luve thee still, my dear,
While the sands o' life shall run.

Robert Burns Country: A Red, Red Rose: [Hear Red, Red Rose]

We can see that he mentions something surprising: that - as part of one process - the seas will go dry, the surface of the Earth will melt, and Sun will be destroyed.

This is uncannily like our current scientific understanding of the fate of the Earth as the Sun reaches the end of its life (emphasis mine):

In about one billion years, the solar luminosity will be 10% higher than at present. This will cause the atmosphere to become a "moist greenhouse", resulting in a runaway evaporation of the oceans. As a likely consequence, plate tectonics will come to an end, and with them the entire carbon cycle.[12] Following this event, in about 2−3 billion years, the planet's magnetic dynamo may cease, causing the magnetosphere to decay and leading to an accelerated loss of volatiles from the outer atmosphere. Four billion years from now, the increase in the Earth's surface temperature will cause a runaway greenhouse effect, heating the surface enough to melt it. By that point, all life on the Earth will be extinct.[13][14] The most probable fate of the planet is absorption by the Sun in about 7.5 billion years, after the star has entered the red giant phase and expanded beyond the planet's current orbit.

Future of Earth - Wikipedia

Burns wrote his poem in 1794, more than a century before the stellar life cycle was beginning to be understood. He didn't have a scientific background; he worked as a poet, writer, farmer and exciseman (tax collector).

Is this poem evidence that Robert Burns had access to scientific knowledge beyond what was available to him by natural means?

Bonus question: if the answer to the above is "yes," should we take this as a sign that sheep can actually talk?

 

[David T]

Some questions for all the people who like to make claims about "science in the Qur'an" and "science in the Bible."

Consider the following lines from "A Red, Red Rose" by Robert Burns:


Robert Burns Country: A Red, Red Rose: [Hear Red, Red Rose]

We can see that he mentions something surprising: that - as part of one process - the seas will go dry, the surface of the Earth will melt, and Sun will be destroyed.

This is uncannily like our current scientific understanding of the fate of the Earth as the Sun reaches the end of its life (emphasis mine):


Future of Earth - Wikipedia

Burns wrote his poem in 1794, more than a century before the stellar life cycle was beginning to be understood. He didn't have a scientific background; he worked as a poet, writer, farmer and exciseman (tax collector).

Is this poem evidence that Robert Burns had access to scientific knowledge beyond what was available to him by natural means?

Bonus question: if the answer to the above is "yes," should we take this as a sign that sheep can actually talk?

Brunolesci built the dome of Florence 450 years before the math was understood. Someone played music before music theory was developed. Someone actually had sex before grays anatomy, Islamic artists used Penrhosetiling patterns 650 years before Roger Penrose developed the math. Life existed 4 billion years before books even!! The Christian text makes the extraordinary claim that consciousness, what ever it maybe, as we experience it, is 14 billion years old.

So based on modern reasoning I would have to say emphatically no,, I see no emperical evidence as to what you claim to be true!

 

[Augustus]

Is this poem evidence that Robert Burns had access to scientific knowledge beyond what was available to him by natural means?

I used Paradise Lost for something similar:

In the Beginning how the Heav'ns and Earth
Rose out of Chaos:


Big bang. You know it makes sense...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Brunolesci built the dome of Florence 450 years before the math was understood. Someone played music before music theory was developed. Someone actually had sex before grays anatomy, Islamic artists used Penrhosetiling patterns 650 years before Roger Penrose developed the math. Life existed 4 billion years before books even!! The Christian text makes the extraordinary claim that consciousness, what ever it maybe, as we experience it, is 14 billion years old.

So based on modern reasoning I would have to say emphatically no,, I see no emperical evidence as to what you claim to be true!

Seems reasonable to me. So you apply the same reasoning to other books (e.g. the Qur'an and the Bible) as well?

 

[David T]

Seems reasonable to me. So you apply the same reasoning to other books (e.g. the Qur'an and the Bible) as well?

Exactly. There is always always a deeper narrative independent of the narratives we create. Ironically when that is expressed in text we become the nonsense that some of the texts point at as being nonsense. It's like "hey that's stupid" we then go "we will be stupid about that being stupid"... No proof the "higher functioning region of the brain is actually" higher functioning" but its simply being dysfunctional. The texts attack that dysfunctionalism. Neurology is spectral and I am the other end to aspergers, synesthesia lefthanded. One reality not multi dimentional abstraction that only exists in one tiny tiny tiny region of the brain self labeled higher functioning" who labeled that? Aspergers? Idiots although clever idiots. . .that region is a thumb pretending. And not well developed at that.

 

[Nakosis]

Some questions for all the people who like to make claims about "science in the Qur'an" and "science in the Bible."

Consider the following lines from "A Red, Red Rose" by Robert Burns:


Robert Burns Country: A Red, Red Rose: [Hear Red, Red Rose]

We can see that he mentions something surprising: that - as part of one process - the seas will go dry, the surface of the Earth will melt, and Sun will be destroyed.

This is uncannily like our current scientific understanding of the fate of the Earth as the Sun reaches the end of its life (emphasis mine):


Future of Earth - Wikipedia

Burns wrote his poem in 1794, more than a century before the stellar life cycle was beginning to be understood. He didn't have a scientific background; he worked as a poet, writer, farmer and exciseman (tax collector).

Is this poem evidence that Robert Burns had access to scientific knowledge beyond what was available to him by natural means?

Bonus question: if the answer to the above is "yes," should we take this as a sign that sheep can actually talk?

So should we be viewing scripture as cultural poetry? Prophets were the artists of God...

 

[YmirGF]

Prophets were the artists of God...

Or quite possibly highly delusion folks their contemporaries chose to listen to for whatever reason.

 

[Nakosis]

Or quite possibly highly delusion folks their contemporaries chose to listen to for whatever reason.

I can think of some current artists that might fit this definition...

 

[Jumi]

The Christian text makes the extraordinary claim that consciousness, what ever it maybe, as we experience it, is 14 billion years old.!

Which Christian text makes that claim?

 

[David T]

Which Christian text makes that claim?

If you don't know the bible well reading might help!! And if you have read it then you should know where it resides! Now if you don't know and you have read it, there in is the problem, fix that problem first and then you will see it. Nature loves to hide said heraclitus. I might say in the lives and loves to hide in the open and most clearly seen in the wilderness. So since I have referenced heraclitus maybe that's a Easter egg hunt clue. Compass not road map I refuse to road map. Buddhists call it koans.

NOW if all the above feels like too much work well there in lies the problem. Art like grace does not come easy. Grace like art takes lots of work. I can say play this cord or play that cord but one has to feel as much as one has to memorize the cords. Art I am always all about art and nature. To feel is primary to express is the outcome of to feel.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you don't know the bible well reading might help!! And if you have read it then you should know where it resides! Now if you don't know and you have read it, there in is the problem, fix that problem first and then you will see it. Nature loves to hide said heraclitus. I might say in the lives and loves to hide in the open and most clearly seen in the wilderness. So since I have referenced heraclitus maybe that's a Easter egg hunt clue. Compass not road map I refuse to road map. Buddhists call it koans.

NOW if all the above feels like too much work well there in lies the problem. Art like grace does not come easy. Grace like art takes lots of work. I can say play this cord or play that cord but one has to feel as much as one has to memorize the cords. Art I am always all about art and nature. To feel is primary to express is the outcome of to feel.

That's a very long way to not answer the question.

 

[David T]

That's a very long way to not answer the question.

I did answer it!!! I could link a metronome link for ya!!! BTW that's the wierd aspect of Buddhist koans as well!! There is a reason they are like that. The classic I like is two students are arguing one day. The master walks by and they go "master we cannot agree, I say the wind is moving the flag, he says the flag is moving the wind" the master replies "its is neither it is your minds that are moving." so there ya go if that's good enough for Buddhists it's good enough for me!!! I really like that one. Am I proclaiming I am a master? No, masters never do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So should we be viewing scripture as cultural poetry? Prophets were the artists of God...

Not quite my point, since I didn't say anything about the artistic merit of scripture.

My point was that if a believer's claims about "scientific knowledge" in his scriptures are met just as easily by secular poetry, he'd better be accepting both. Edit: or even better - raising his standards.

 

[YmirGF]

My point was that if a believer's claims about "scientific knowledge" in his scriptures are met just as easily by secular poetry, he'd better be accepting both. Edit: or even better - raising his standards.

And it's an excellent point too. What I find puzzling is how the writers of these barren claims don't see what is so blatantly obvious.

 

[Nakosis]

Not quite my point, since I didn't say anything about the artistic merit of scripture.

My point was that if a believer's claims about "scientific knowledge" in his scriptures are met just as easily by secular poetry, he'd better be accepting both. Edit: or even better - raising his standards.

I suspect they'd be better off dropping claims of scientific knowledge altogether.

 

[Jumi]

If you don't know the bible well reading might help!!

I've read it and it has nothing like that claim! You've mistaken a scientific view of the age of the Universe for the Biblical.

 

[David T]

I've read it and it has nothing like that claim! You've mistaken a scientific view of the age of the Universe for the Biblical.

As I said it says it very clearly and I have pointed to heraclitus. Here I will write another word. TAO, nature, cosmos, oh wait, logos.

I am sorry heraclitus is extremely clear on the logos, pythagoras is a dim witted asperger idiot. The text is heraclitean not pythagoreanism is childish nonsense as its childishly theologically presented.

I have zero idea why aspergers are so dominate in theology but its pure gibberish garbage. Ken ham is aspergers if you want a clear indication of pure theological nonsense.. . Neurology exactly. I have zero patience with aspergers interjection childish fantasy onto the text.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As I said it says it very clearly and I have pointed to heraclitus.

Heraclitus is a "Christian text?"

 

[David T]

Heraclitus is a "Christian text?"

is pythagoras Christian? I mean he sure seems to dominate Christian theology. His self deluded notion of the logos as Nous or mind or intellect sure seems like Christian theology. It's aspergers really total nonsense and cute and clueless.

 

[Jumi]

As I said it says it very clearly and I have pointed to heraclitus.

He's not in the Bible and he didn't know the age of the universe.

Here I will write another word. TAO, nature, cosmos, oh wait, logos.

Tao is different from cosmos and certainly different from logos.

I am sorry heraclitus is extremely clear on the logos, pythagoras is a dim witted asperger idiot. The text is heraclitean not pythagoreanism is childish nonsense as its childishly theologically presented.

They were both well before Christianity or the Christian Bible ever existed. Their texts are also not in the Bible, and they don't claim a world billions of years old.

I have zero idea why aspergers are so dominate in theology but its pure gibberish garbage. Ken ham is aspergers if you want a clear indication of pure theological nonsense.. . Neurology exactly. I have zero patience with aspergers interjection childish fantasy onto the text.

I have no idea why you're ranting against aspergers. It doesn't seem to do anything with the Bible. They didn't know the world was billions of years old and they didn't have any knowledge of autism.