FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
I would argue that's stockholme syndrome...the idea that we must suffer to learn is just strange to me and it's been shown that positive reinforcement has a much longer standing impact than negative ones.
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Science does what God(s) cannot.
- Thread starter Mycroft
- Start date
I would argue that's stockholme syndrome...the idea that we must suffer to learn is just strange to me and it's been shown that positive reinforcement has a much longer standing impact than negative ones.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
god doesn't cut my toenails. What does that prove?
Obviously, god is in every way inferior to a pair of nail snips. [/sarcasm]
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Skwim
Veteran Member
Promises, promises, promises. There comes a time when the declaration starts to ring hollow, and that ringing started long, long ago. Suffering has hardly abated one iota in the last three thousand years, and where it has, it's only because science or circumstances have stepped in.
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Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
Meanwhile, in reality....
Children are dying of ailments that we can cure today. Left up to people like you they would continue to suffer and die while your fictional God ruminates upon some grand plan. And to say that their suffering is fair enough because they'll get a better deal in the next life is simply inhuman and immoral.
For the last 2 millennia it seems God's cure for cancer has been death. Which I concede is everlasting. But I also say is a right old pile of cobblers.
Amechania
Daimona of the Helpless
I need God for this?
roger1440
I do stuff
How can you be so sure?
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
And again, science does it while God...well...yeah:
Breakthrough therapy allows four paraplegic men to voluntarily move their legs
Breakthrough therapy allows four paraplegic men to voluntarily move their legs
I think many people wonder why God has not ended suffering sooner. I believe the Bible clearly gives God's reasons. One reason is stated at 2 Peter 3:9: "Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." I believe God's patience has permitted millions to come to know the truth and make the necessary changes in their lives to be acceptable to God. There are other, even more important reasons, why God has temporarily allowed suffering to exist. One has but to search to find them.
I agree that science has done some good in relieving suffering. However, science has also caused and continues to cause great suffering. Drugs such as Thalidomide and many others have caused much more suffering then they alleviated. The science of chemistry has produced products that have caused millions of deaths, some intentionally, others accidentilly. The same can be said of other sciences. Those who look to scientific advances as mankind's salvation will be disappointed, IMO.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
You actually think science and God are somehow opponents, and that somehow this shows anything?
It's things like this which make me lose faith in fellow Britons.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
Not at all. I have often said that Religion and Science are not necessarily opposing ideas. Science simply finds no evidence behind the claims of religion and so doesn't deal with it.
My point here is that while the religious claim that it's a miracle that their middle-class ailments have been cured by the good lord, science is going ahead and dealing with the real problems where this alleged god is supposedly not.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
Religion is no different in this respect.
Science is a tool and people will misuse it.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I'm still not seeing the issue, here.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
It doesn't seem like you're giving acknowledgement to the diversity of "religious" claims with regard to the resolutions of sick humans. In particular, you seem to be either overlooking or ignoring the fact that the god-concept held by many theists easily allows for "miracles" to operate through "mundane" modes of delivery. You also seem to be either overlooking or ignoring the fact that not all theists posit god(s) that care about the welfare of human beings. Whatever the heck you're trying to say here, it's not applicable to many theisms.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Yes; it's still silly.
See Quint's post above for more detail.
roger1440
I do stuff
God heals the spiritually ill, but one must be a willing patient. Miraculous cures are closer than you think. You just have to know where to look.
So he replied to the messengers, "Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. (Luke 7:22)
The desert and the parched land will be glad;
the wilderness will rejoice and blossom.
Like the crocus,
2 it will burst into bloom;
it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy.
The glory of Lebanon will be given to it,
the splendor of Carmel and Sharon;
they will see the glory of the Lord,
the splendor of our God.
3 Strengthen the feeble hands,
steady the knees that give way;
4 say to those with fearful hearts,
Be strong, do not fear;
your God will come,
he will come with vengeance;
with divine retribution
he will come to save you.
5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened
and the ears of the deaf unstopped.
(Isaiah 35:1-5)
the wilderness will rejoice and blossom.
Like the crocus,
2 it will burst into bloom;
it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy.
The glory of Lebanon will be given to it,
the splendor of Carmel and Sharon;
they will see the glory of the Lord,
the splendor of our God.
3 Strengthen the feeble hands,
steady the knees that give way;
4 say to those with fearful hearts,
Be strong, do not fear;
your God will come,
he will come with vengeance;
with divine retribution
he will come to save you.
5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened
and the ears of the deaf unstopped.
(Isaiah 35:1-5)