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Science can now bring a species back from extinction.

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Photonic, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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  2. Breathe

    Breathe Hostis humani generis

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    About time.
    Next, Neanderthals?

    *wants Neanderthals, has since he was a kid*
     
  3. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    But where's my damned teleporter?!?!?

    :p

    Seriously, that's awesome.
     
  4. Breathe

    Breathe Hostis humani generis

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    It is, isn't it? :D
     
  5. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Just a few quibbles...

    Japan has been promising mammoths are just a few years away for a decade.
    We don't have a complete genome yet.
    Having a genome and having a living mammoth are worlds apart.

    Making a single mammoth does not bring them back from extinction, it makes them extinct twice.
    Making a herd of clones is not only cost prohibitive but still does nothing to bring them back... you won't have the genetic diversity to sustain them.

    The only surrogates would be elephants, who are endangered themselves. Not only that, they are highly intelligent, highly social and willing to kill infants rather than raise them in captivity. Once your mammoth is born the mother may reject or kill it. Assuming it doesn't die on it's own.
    Without a proper social structure your mammoth is going to have social disorders.
    Clones have very low survivorship... the mammoth will likely die before maturity... if it makes it full term.


    Not that I wouldn't love to see a living mammoth... I would likely weep at the sight of it. But I don't want it to live a short pain/illness riddled life, just to suit my fancy. Making the mammoth go extinct twice would just be cruel.

    Besides, there are plenty of species near extinction now, they need our immediate help.

    wa:do
     
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  6. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    Oh, pooh!

    Just rain on the parade, whydoncha? :p
     
  7. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Cloning a neanderthal would be supremely cruel.

    wa:do
     
  8. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Sorry... :p

    I love mammoths... I made a necklace with a bit of mammoth ivory as a pendant so I could keep a bit of them with me.

    But, I think the morality and the feasibility of this project is questionable.

    wa:do
     
  9. Breathe

    Breathe Hostis humani generis

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    Unfortunately it would.
    However, for sake of discussion, what part do you think would be cruel? The process in itself, the loneliness it would endure, something else?
     
  10. Mr Spinkles

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    painted wolf,

    Can you explain to me the purpose of the mammoth's enormous tusks? Are they for fighting off predators or other males .... ? They just seem so unwieldy.
     
  11. Caladan

    Caladan Agnostic Pantheist

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    You know, some Neanderthal DNA may live on in modern humans. approximately 1 to 4% of non-African modern human DNA is shared with Neanderthals.
     
  12. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    Japan didn't have the material that they have now.

    While that may allow them to clone it, I think you are right that the clone may have some flaws that could only be worked out through successive generations of cloning.

    Which is probably cruel.

    Is there another way to clone an extinct species without some tests though?
     
  13. Awoon

    Awoon Well-Known Member

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    The Mommy Elephant should refuse to be the surrogate.

    Could anyone imagine the feeling she would have birthing a Mammoth with those big horns?
     
  14. Engyo

    Engyo Prince of Dorkness!

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    One conjecture is that they were useful for clearing snow off of frozen grasses to eat.
     
  15. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    They seem more of a burden then anything.

    They would make great columns for my entrace door.

    The bigger the tusks the more the ladies....
     
  16. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Like elephants tusks are multi-use implements. We know they were used in fights between males due to the types of damage they sustained. And it's likely they provided a sexual selection advantage to their owners. Females have much smaller tusks.

    Given their shape they also would be useful for food harvesting... by moving snow and aiding the trunk in manipulating small trees and shrubs. Since the tundra/seppe mammoths wouldn't encounter many tall trees, the tusks didn't get in the way of tree pushing, like they would for modern elephants.

    And some of it may have been genetic drift.

    There usually isn't a single explanation for a feature.

    wa:do
     
  17. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    They are tusks, not horns.
     
  18. Awoon

    Awoon Well-Known Member

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    I guess the joke went over....sorry
     
  19. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    They still haven't shown they actually have what they need to clone from. You can't use damaged DNA even if it's 80% intact... it's not enough.

    yeah... we can try cloning modern endangered species. We have lots of frozen genetic material to work with. Also elephants (and mammoths) are terrible for this type of experiment due to the extraordinarily long gestation periods and the already existing problems with in vetro fertilization.

    If you want to work on truly successful cloning from frozen samples you should work on species that don't take several years to produce results.
    Once we can actually successfully clone still existing species we can move on to the more difficult reconstruction of an extinct one.

    Cloning isn't seen as a viable option for modern endangered species... how can it be expected to bring back extinct ones?

    I say get cloning to work effectively in the first place before making it more complicated.

    wa:do
     
  20. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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