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Science and relgion

Discussion in 'Gnosticism DIR' started by frangipani, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. frangipani

    frangipani Member
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    I have often wondered about the argument of science verses religion. In our society it appears we take science as fact, even if it is just a theory and we take religion or more correctly in this case Christianity as a mythical moral code that can be applied to this world and its behaviour rather than facts for an individual. If as I believe the True God created, the first thought being the Barbelo and then eventually Sophia created the Demiurge (Yaltabaoth) who was cast out of the realm of the True God and then began to create himself from existing particles, so rather manipulate particles than create them and I am talking about neutrinos and if some day science find smaller particles that make up neutrinos then that particle would be what Yaltaboath uses to form a neutrino and so on. But at this point a neutrino is the smallest particle we can observe, so we will use it as the smallest particle. So I think science and myth share a common truth as I will explain as simply as I can.


    In the beginning was the ineffable Spirit, an androgenous pre-existing energy. From this pre-existing energy the first forethought burst into reality, causing the big bang creating the Barbelo (the first creation). The fallout from the big bang was neutrinos. Neutrinos, a waste product from the big bang filled the void of space. Within the Barbelo the ineffable Spirit created the Aeons, one of which was knowledge (Sophia in Greek). Sophia, being an aeon, conceived a thought from herself and the conception of the invisible Spirit and foreknowledge. She wanted to bring forth a likeness out of

    Herself without the consent of the Spirit, - he had not approved - and without her consort, and without his consideration. And though the person of her maleness had not approved, and she had not found her agreement, and she had thought without the consent of the Spirit and the knowledge of her agreement, yet she brought forth. And because of the invincible power, which is in her, her thought did not remain idle, and something came out of her, which was imperfect and different from her appearance, because she had created it without her consort. And it was dissimilar to the likeness of its mother, for it has another form.


    And when she saw the consequences of her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires, which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place; into the void that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud of neutrinos and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the Holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth, (Jehovah). This is the first archon that took a great power from his mother. And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born. He became strong and created for himself by energizing the neutrinos that surrounded him and created other aeons with a flame of luminous fire, which still exists now.


    The Neutrino’s energised by living thought energy from the child of Sophia (Yaltabaoth) form quarks, quarks form protons, neutrons and electrons, these three components form atoms, atoms are the building blocks of matter. Yaltabaoth (Jehovah) could then manipulate the matter he had made and create the matter universe as we see it and know it.

    So what of mankind? Yaltabaoth being androgenous had made a great host of spiritual beings, angels and archons. Then he made the matter universe from the material surrounding him (neutrinos). He made the earth and he and his angels and archons ruled over it.

    The rulers laid plans and said, "Come, let create a man that will be soil from the earth." They modelled their creature as one wholly of the earth. They had taken some soil from the earth and modeled their man after their body and after the image of God that they had seen above them. They said, "Come, let us lay hold of it by means of the form that we have modelled, so that it may see its male counterpart, the Spirit, and we may seize it with the form that we have modelled" – not understanding the force of God, because of their powerlessness. And he breathed into his face; and the man came to have a soul and remained upon the ground many days. But they could not make him arise because of their powerlessness. Like storm winds they persisted in blowing, that they might try to capture that image, which had appeared to them from above. And they did not know the identity of its power.

    Now all these things came to pass by the will of the father of the entirety. Afterwards, the spirit saw the soul-endowed man upon the ground. And the spirit came forth from above; it descended and came to dwell within him, and that man became a living soul. It called his name Adam, since he was found moving upon the ground. A voice came forth from incorruptibility for the assistance of Adam.

    They took Adam and put him the garden, that he might cultivate it and keep watch over it. And the rulers issued a command to him, saying, "From every tree in the garden shall you eat; yet from the tree of recognizing good and evil do not eat, nor touch it; for the day you eat from it, with death you are going to die." They did this. They do not understand what they have said to him; rather, by the Father's will, they said this in such a way that he might in fact eat, and that Adam might not regard them, as would a man of an exclusively material nature.

    The rulers took counsel with one another and said, "Come, let us cause a deep sleep to fall upon Adam." And he slept. – Now the deep sleep that they "caused to fall upon him, and he slept" is Ignorance. – They opened his side like a living woman. And they built up his side with some flesh in place of her, and Adam came to be endowed only with soul. And the spirit-endowed woman came to him and spoke with him, saying, "Arise, Adam." And when he saw her, he said, "It is you who have given me life; you will be called 'mother of the living'. – For it is she who is my mother. It is she who is the physician, and the woman, and she who has given birth."

    Then the authorities came up to their Adam. And when they saw his female counterpart speaking with him, they became agitated with great agitation; and they became enamoured of her. They said to one another, "Come, let us sow our seed in her," and they pursued her. And she laughed at them for their witlessness and their blindness; and in their clutches she became a tree, and left before them her shadowy reflection resembling herself; and they defiled it foully. – And they defiled the stamp of her voice, so that by the form they had modelled, together with their own image, they made themselves liable to condemnation.

    Then the female spiritual principle came in the snake, the instructor; and it taught them, saying, "What did he say to you? Was it, 'From every tree in the garden shall you eat; yet – from the tree of recognizing good and evil do not eat'?" The carnal woman said, "Not only did he say 'Do not eat', but even 'Do not touch it; for the day you eat from it, with death you are going to die.'" And the snake, the instructor, said, "With death you shall not die; for it was out of jealousy that he said this to you. Rather your eyes shall open and you shall come to be like gods, recognizing evil and good." And the female instructing principle was taken away from the snake, and she left it behind, merely a thing of the earth. And the carnal woman took from the tree and ate; and she gave to her husband as well as herself; and these beings that possessed only a soul, ate. And their imperfection became apparent in their lack of knowledge; and they recognized that they were naked of the spiritual element, and took fig leaves and bound them upon their loins.

    Then the chief ruler came; and he said, "Adam! Where are you?" – for he did not understand what had happened. And Adam said, "I heard your voice and was afraid because I was naked; and I hid."

    The ruler said, "Why did you hide, unless it is because you have eaten from the tree from which alone I commanded you not to eat? And you have eaten!" Adam said, "The woman that you gave me, she gave to me and I ate." And the arrogant ruler cursed the woman. The woman said, "It was the snake that led me astray and I ate." They turned to the snake and cursed its shadowy reflection, not comprehending that it was a form they themselves had modelled. From that day, the snake came to be under the curse of the authorities; until the all-powerful man was to come, that curse fell upon the snake.

    They turned to their Adam and took him and expelled him from the garden along with his wife; for they have no blessing, since they too are beneath the curse. Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the Holy Spirit.

    So these things came to be and from then until now mankind has been occupied by worldly affairs and so much consumed that the Spirit within them, that inherited from Eve through the generations goes unnoticed. The soul and cognition is occupied fully with external worldly matters and only attempting to turn to ‘God’ in times of trial and tribulation; but in their ignorance and with some arrogance within that ignorance none find the Truth of the Spirit within, but all seek God without and in truth cannot find God, even though they lay claim to Him, they have not known Him and he has not known them.

    At the beginning of the time of mankind with Spirit and soul the Great Ineffable Spirit (true God) has felt a disturbance in the harmony of life. Wisdom repented from the error made in creating without the consort of her male counterpart. The Ineffable Spirit forgave her and to right the wrong Wisdom with the consort of her male counterpart came down to earth and imparted knowledge to mankind through the Spirit. Most people born are born with both soul from Yaltabaoth and inherited spirit from Eve. In the case of the sociopath this is not so. The sociopath is an animal in human form, much the same as Adam and Eve before eating of the fruit of life (Divine knowledge). The sociopath is a person with soul, but no Spirit and therefore beyond salvation.

    Throughout human history the true God has tried to awaken mankind to the truth behind the illusion of this life, He was not successful, so He came Himself in the form of the Christ, the first begotten of the Androgenous Father. The Christ entered the man Jesus, whose soul was receptive and welcoming to Him. He became as we are and learned of us and in turn taught us about Himself and His place giving us instruction on reality and showing us that it is possible for the soul to be saved when the Spirit is redeemed through the knowledge He was imparting applied by us in our lives.

    We must first consider what is real, what is solid and everlasting. Yaltabaoth made matter from energising neutrinos from is own living thought energy (the being that he is) and arranging them as it pleased him to create as he wanted. But, are we really a solid being, is the matter universe a solid stable everlasting environment? An electrically neutral neutrino can pass through matter as dust passes through the air. Matter is made up of atoms, atoms are made up of subatomic particles, these particles are made up of energised neutrinos. Atoms have a nucleus, protons and electrons. The parts of an atom are not a solid mass, but moving electrons orbit the nucleus, as planets in our solar system orbit the sun. The molecular structure changes depending on the number of electrons orbiting the nucleus. Atoms of the same structure bond together to form substances both organic and inorganic. This is how the universe is made. So from that we can see what appears solid is not and is indeed moving all the time. We can also see space between the nucleus and the electrons orbiting it. We also know that everything decays, changes in our world and in the universe. The only difference is the rate of change or decay. To us some things decay quickly others like solar systems very slowly.

    One thing we can be sure of is the decay of everything around us including the bodies in which we dwell. So, is there anything permanent, anything that lasts? Yes, you! That is your thinking, because we are all living thought energy, even the sociopath.

    When people die, (with the exception of the sociopath that is those with only a soul, but no spirit) if they die without Christ two beings are set free from them, their soul and the inherited Spirit. The inherited Spirit that was within them is redeemed to the Ineffable God to whom it belongs. Their soul returns to Yaldabaoth to whom it belongs, including the souls of the sociopath.

    Yaltabaoth, the creator God of this world follows his own agenda in his arrogance. Some say the soul is reincarnated back into the world, we have all heard stories of people claiming to have lived past lives. Others say the soul resides in heaven with Yaltabaoth. Others say the soul is simply cast into the void, yet others think the soul just perishes. Perhaps there is some truth in all of those myths, perhaps it depends on what Yaltabaoth wants to do with his returning souls.

    As Yaltabaoth was created in error, so to the error people have made is thinking that the creator of the matter universe, Yaltabaoth, Jehovah and called by various other names is the father of the Christ Spirit. The creator God of the matter universe is not the father of the Christ. The Father of Christ is the Ineffable Spirit from above the Barbelo and the creator of it. He came as His only begotten Son to show mankind the way of true humanity. He came to teach us to see what and who we really are. For us to be saved from the creations of the creator God (Yaltabaoth) and escape turmoil and unrest we must look to the inherited Spirit within us. We must be in communication with that Spirit and allow that Spirit to teach us, guide us, become us and we inturn become it. It is a marriage, the two becoming one, Christ in us, us in Christ.

    It is then we become truly Christian, when our bodies die soul and spirit are freed, our soul is saved with our Spirit as it is redeemed to the Ineffable Father. The two have become one and the Ineffable Spirit is greater than Yaltabaoth, the creator god, and the Spirit is stronger than the soul. As a husband protects and saves his beloved wife from the adversary so to the Christ Spirit protects and saves His beloved souls from Yaltabaoth. This is the truth of salvation. Where the two, Spirit and Soul have become one in Christ there is both redemption and salvation. Those who are saved shall rest in perfect peace and love. They are those who have been faithful, seeing beyond the illusion of the matter universe. Seeing themselves for who they are in this world and becoming who they truly ought to be, that is Christ like in Spirit and Soul. They are those lifted up and raised above the turmoil and chaos of the creator god Yaltabaoth to a safe and everlasting place. There they shall rest in the house of the Lord forever. This is reality, at the appointed time all matter will be done away with and those souls still trapped within the realm of Yaltabaoth shall share the same fate as him.


    For Yaltabaoth the earth being a living planet is the gem in his creation, or at least one gem in his creation, after all it would be naïve for us to think that out of all we see in space we would be the only inhabited planet. While it is possible that only this planet has ‘intelligent life’ it would be naïve to think that also. Likewise in would be naïve to think that if there is other inhabited planets with intelligent life that Christ only visited this one. In any case whether on our world or on many the soul and Spirit are imprisoned in the bodies belong to the planet we occupy. For the soul without the consort and union of the Spirit it is a nightmare and quite possibly a recurring nightmare if those who believe in reincarnation are right. Without doubt we must be thankful to the Ineffable Spirit for his grace and love through Christ giving us real hope of escape from here and salvation.

    When one looks into the night sky at the stars and thinks about the physical size of the matter universe it is almost too much to comprehend. When one learns the matter universe is only 20% of identified space the enormity of it is mind-boggling. To think there is an even greater place outside this universe where the true God exists is almost unfathomable, yet such a place exists. It makes one realise how small each of us really is and when one looks at time lines in space we can see our life span is just a flash and then it’s gone. The only thing solid are the beings of living thought energy and the only ones of them to be permanent are those who have become one with the Christ Spirit, they are all that is saved to a place beyond this existence.

    Has the end of the matter universe already started, scientists have discovered ‘black-holes’ elements that are consuming galaxies and all that is in them. They have discovered what they refer to as ‘dark matter’ described as something that is there but undefinable and this dark matter is 80% of space as we know it and even it is consumed by ‘black holes’, with the matter universe as we know it only 20% of that space. In that 20% there is creation and destruction going on all the time, a great turmoil. How long before we too are consumed by a ‘black hole’. Are ‘black holes’ the way the Ineffable Spirit is removing the error of the creation of matter? As mentioned previously the time line in space, time is relative to the place we are in. Time in the eternal realm is not definable and has no parameters therefore it does not exist. So, because we see ‘black-holes’ and what they are doing taking a long time, or being a long way off in time, that time is only relevant to us. I believe these ‘black-holes’ are doing what they do by the will of the Ineffable Spirit and at the appointed time (to put some perspective on it for us) will do what they do to our galaxy and solar system and this planet with all that is on it.

    In this life no matter our station whether suffering in great agony our mortal lives will end or if enjoying the highlife with all the world has to offer at our fingertips our mortal lives will end. So what is real? Our thoughts are real, we are living thought energy, we are the sum total of our thoughts and those who will live are those who live in Christ and Christ in them. They are everlasting and truly real, they are those who will live in the Spiritual dimension of the True Living God. If you earnestly seek the Truth you will find it and you will find from within. Remember everything rests on these two principles; Love God most of all. Love your neighbour as yourself. If you apply these principles when you want to do contrary your conscience will prick you and you will have the opportunity to do right, more than that you will identify archons (demons) within, like jealousy, greed, pride, competitiveness, etcetera and have the opportunity to purge them out. This is the beginning of purifying your soul and bonding with the Christ Spirit which in time will be revealed as it really is and not seen just through conscience.

    Finally though, what really matters to each of us is that we find our true selves and the Christ within us while we are here in this life on this planet. The bigger picture as described here is beyond us, out of our control, what is within our control and not beyond us is finding the truth about our real selves and the Truth of the Ineffable Spirit in Christ and becoming Christ like. True Christians are as Christ was that is, in the world, but not of the world. Once one finds their true self and the Spirit within they will understand this saying.

    I know this is a looong post but I would be interested in other views.
     
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  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Youd have to condense it. I understood that Christ is within you. How does that relate to science?
     
  3. frangipani

    frangipani Member
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    What I am saying is science has shown that there are greater things moving in the universe than us. Science cannot explain black holes or understand dark matter but they exist and are not inactive. They are greater than the known universe. I believe these elements along with the universe itself demonstrates clearly that there is a higher power than us and a higher power than the matter universe that we do not understand. I agree that Christ is within, it is by the nature of inheritance we receive the Spirit. Even so I believe everything that exists came from a single thought from the Ineffable Spirit that includes dark matter, black holes, matter, the demiurge, everything including our consciousness, "I think therefore I am". All of these things are governed by a higher power and a higher power again until we reach the highest power. I think science has showed higher powers at work in the universe and as such has proved to a point what were religious myths can been seen as fact. We are a microcosm living thought energy that if cleaned up by Christ will find harmony. The universe and beyond are macrocosms that once cleaned up by the Ineffable Spirit will bring harmony back to life.
     
  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I can see that. If you rely on the bible, the bible doesnt explain in detail what it says God created. I would say science is just the natural world. It is not separated from who you believe created it.

     
  5. frangipani

    frangipani Member
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    I agree science is the study of the natural universe, which of course includes this world. My point is science today being far more technologically advanced than in previous times is seeing the natural universe in far more detail than ever before. It is in this detail we can see evidence of greater powers at work. This in my opinion validates the existence of God or Gods that previously were spoken about in myth and confirms it is indeed not separated from the Creator God (Yaltaboath) nor from the Ineffable Spirit (true God & father of Christ). So, surely this evidence alone ought to be food-for-thought for the sceptic and agnostic. I find it difficult to understand why everyone doesn't heed the instruction of Christ seeking the Spirit within and when found embrace it fully. If the evidence of Truth through Christ on earth and the Holy Ghost is not enough, if the evidence of nature itself on earth is not enough to open peoples eyes, sure the cosmological evidence stacks up with the rest in a much greater way. How can one not see there is more to life than what we know in this sensory world.
     
  6. Hidden Human

    Hidden Human Christ is before my eyes always I in Him, He in me

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    So, The condensed version of what Frangipani wrote to me would mean, at some time the demiurge will run out of neutrinos to energise and form matter, but the black holes, vacuum cleaners of the universe so to speak, will continue to suck up and destroy the matter that exists until it is all gone. Then all that is left in the void of space is the demiurge himself and in the Spiritual domain above this void only the Ineffable Spirit and His will remain, meaning outside of Him there will be only the void and in it those lost souls including the demiurge. Their living thought being eventually fading to nothing like the void around them because they have nothing real to live in and stimulate them. Therefore all that is real is the Christ Spirit at the end of days and those of us whose souls embrace it and love it will be saved into the Spiritual domain with it.
     
  7. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Wrong section
     
    #7 viole, Dec 11, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  8. TheInfiniteLight

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    The way I understand it is the Light of Christ that is within you. Science has no way to measure spirit; therefore, it is not scientific but spiritual.
     
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    It could be scientific but because it is personal and calling something spiritual scientific, people feel its belittling their faith.

    To te you honestly, our beliefs in god or christ, etc, come from us and our mind. I like the word spiritual; but, when I think about the psychology of belief (science of it) it doesnt exist. Just to us.

    There is a thread "Does god exist" in Are You New to the Forums. I explained it there weirdly enough. Post 32.

    Spirituality is awesome. Just people take it personally when you say, it comes from you not an outside party.
     
  10. Ralphg

    Ralphg Member

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    Thank you soooo much. This helped me a lot understanding my visions and angelic meetings. I've 'heard and seen' all the deities you describe but wasn't able to make a comprehensive story of it.

    .....in an effort to return the favor here's some 'inside' knowledge about science-religion and Black Holes for you:

    - I think it's Ineffable Spirit's (and most Aeons) fervent wish (I use that term on purpose because it was a term I heard an angel say once) that we use science and 'religion' to create a 'Paradise on Earth' in Body and Mind. In Body by using science to live forever and in mind by using our collective consious to 'make 1 line' so we can also start making 'creations' of our own. So basically to make the same 'mistake' as Sophia did. Ineffable Spirit checks regurlary how far we are on our way to do that by 'interrogating' the returning spirits. Ineffable Spirit was the first one to make the 'mistake' and he thinks we should all make these 'mistakes' because 'having children' is the most precious thing!!!

    - On a - let's call it - 'unseen' level Black holes are the binoculars used by the Aeons to 'check' how we are doing (they are still learning how to 'interrogate' the 'returning souls' (like Ineffable Spirit does whit 'his' spirits), they haven't figured out how to do that yet).
     
    #10 Ralphg, Dec 14, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
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