That should weed out most everyone, save for a very scant few. I'm imagining many hundreds of thousands of churches with maybe two or maybe three people in all those empty pews totaled.
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And you know this how … ?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
To be already saved, you are correct. But as Jesus taught, the straight and narrow path is very difficult, and few there are who find it, which implies that Christian religious practice is a process that is not instantaneous, so while there will be only a small number at any one time who are saved, in time the number grows. If anyone right now has not forgiven all others who have hurt them, it does not mean that they will never realize that goal in this life.That should weed out most everyone, save for a very scant few. I'm imagining many hundreds of thousands of churches with maybe two or maybe three people in all those empty pews totaled.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I am not stuck but I can still recognize the difference between a sows ear and a purse.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the Pope practices Jesusism and Traditionalism but not true Christianity.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior instantly works.
I find that "saved" is a tricky word. People can hide behind that word, as if simply by saying yes to an altar call and "accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and savior" creates some magical change in a ledger line entry in heaven, and that's it, "I'm saved now!", and then they go about hating others who are "God's enemies" by joining right-wing political rallies, as such. That's joining a religion. Not salvation.
I see "salvation", as much more akin to, if not identical with, Enlightenment, which is a freedom from illusions of "sin", in so many words. It is a process of transformation to complete liberation. "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty". Suffering ceases. Fear ceases. Love becomes abundant and overflowing. Darkness is dispelled. And indeed, few there are who find it.
I think what I hear is along the lines of the sower and the seeds. Many seeds are sown, some quickly sprout up as they "see the light", so to speak and "accept Jesus", in whatever form that takes. But few find proper ground and actually grow and mature. The rest either wither and die, or are swept up by predators into believing being saved means being on "God's team", as some form of self-deception that they are being true to their original spiritual calling.
Does that number grow? According to that parable, while there may be millions of converts, most won't survive, as it takes genuine cultivation and commitment to both grow and tend a garden. It's much easier to just simply take a shortcut to Nirvana, call yourself saved because you said "yes!" to Jesus, and go on your new glossy form of serving your own human ego.
I will say this however, that if there are more genuinely authentic spiritually awakened souls out there, that can have an effect on others who are seeking light. So in that sense, that "few", becomes a few more.
I agree. When someone sees that they are still harboring resentments towards others, this becomes an indication of something more yet to be let go off. Letting go, is a process. More an more you become transformed, "from glory to glory" as Paul put it. And the result of that is what I'd call "salvation".
Funny you should say this this morning, while I was in the middle of typing this post #67 right before this one, as we overposted each other, that touches on this very thing. You might wish to read it. Think of the parable of the sower and seeds, as you consider what you just said above about becoming an instant Christian.
Here's a great Christian tune from back in the 80's that came to mind just now.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Do you not spend time alone each day on your religious practice?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I see the purpose of religion as bringing about the realization of what and who the individual really is in the context of infinite eternal existence. It is akin the concept of ending karma and the end of reincarnation, no more going out and coming. Karma, reaping what you sow, are just other terms for cause and effect. This is the world of effects, the spiritual, mental, emotional, and physical worlds may all be places of cause,I find that "saved" is a tricky word. People can hide behind that word, as if simply by saying yes to an altar call and "accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and savior" creates some magical change in a ledger line entry in heaven, and that's it, "I'm saved now!", and then they go about hating others who are "God's enemies" by joining right-wing political rallies, as such. That's joining a religion. Not salvation.
I see "salvation", as much more akin to, if not identical with, Enlightenment, which is a freedom from illusions of "sin", in so many words. It is a process of transformation to complete liberation. "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty". Suffering ceases. Fear ceases. Love becomes abundant and overflowing. Darkness is dispelled. And indeed, few there are who find it.
I think what I hear is along the lines of the sower and the seeds. Many seeds are sown, some quickly sprout up as they "see the light", so to speak and "accept Jesus", in whatever form that takes. But few find proper ground and actually grow and mature. The rest either wither and die, or are swept up by predators into believing being saved means being on "God's team", as some form of self-deception that they are being true to their original spiritual calling.
Does that number grow? According to that parable, while there may be millions of converts, most won't survive, as it takes genuine cultivation and commitment to both grow and tend a garden. It's much easier to just simply take a shortcut to Nirvana, call yourself saved because you said "yes!" to Jesus, and go on your new glossy form of serving your own human ego.
I will say this however, that if there are more genuinely authentic spiritually awakened souls out there, that can have an effect on others who are seeking light. So in that sense, that "few", becomes a few more.
I agree. When someone sees that they are still harboring resentments towards others, this becomes an indication of something more yet to be let go off. Letting go, is a process. More an more you become transformed, "from glory to glory" as Paul put it. And the result of that is what I'd call "salvation".
I do not see religion as having any long term goals in this physical world, as Jesus explained, this world hates me, the Kindom of which I speak is not of this world. Likewise, the Buddhist is striving to end reincarnation.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
So?
Didn't God care about his own creation before 2000 years ago and in areas whereas they've never even heard of Jesus?
syo
Well-Known Member
You should ask them and not third parties. It's not proper.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Who are you exactly to judge Pope Francis on whether he practices what you believe to be "true Christianity" or not?
Catholics believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only "true church," and that Protestants aren't saved on account of their Protestant beliefs. According to their beliefs, salvation only comes through Jesus and through the Catholic Church (source). So perhaps the Catholics are right and you are wrong, but of course, I'm sure you don't believe that they are correct in their beliefs just as they don't believe you are correct in yours. IMO, I don't think I should believe your Christian beliefs any more than I believe theirs.
To be honest, I think it's pointless for Christians to claim that Christianity is the only true religion in the world because it is largely fragmented into separate churches that all claim to be the "one true church." There are the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox, and the Protestants who all lay claim to the title. There are hundreds of Protestant denominations that have their own church doctrine and a preferred interpretation of the Bible. There is widespread dissension among Christians about whether eternal salvation is conditional or unconditional; whether baptism is required for salvation; whether speaking in tongues is a sign of salvation; how a true believer should be properly baptized; whether a woman can be an ordained minister or not; whether there will be a Rapture of the church and a Tribulation; and when there will be a Rapture and when the Tribulation will happen. In other words, there's never-ending bickering and arguments among Christians about what the Bible actually teaches. If Christians can't get the story straight, then why in the world do they expect non-Christians to believe whatever they say about the Bible, God, or anything else pertaining to their Christian faith?
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That used to be a teaching way back when but no longer is.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
If that's not the teaching of the Catholic Church anymore, then Catholic Answers should update its website.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I go by the Catechism of the Catholic Church for official responses: (CCC 846-48),
cataway
Well-Known Member
that could possibly be the most radicles response i have seen . clearly if one wanted to be free from physical life ,then die. be dead!
there was a man his name ,Adam . what was he promised? he was told dont sin . he however did sin .because he did sin he died! death is not a reward it's the penalty .
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
To live in this world is the punishment in my view, dying is just a part of life
cataway
Well-Known Member
dying is just a part of life because of the sin of Adam . to be fully saved is yet a future event . a thing that will be orchestrated by Jesus .
have you ever read in Isaiah 11:6-10
6 The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb,
And with the young goat the leopard will lie down,
And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 The cow and the bear will feed together,
And their young will lie down together.
The lion will eat straw like the bull.
8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea.
10 In that day the root of Jesʹse will stand up as a signal for the peoples.
To him the nations will turn for guidance,
And his resting-place will become glorious.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I do not follow the h4istian teaching my self, but i have nothing against people who do.