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Saved By Grace Or Saved By Works?

Works are not a part of the salvation equation (Ephesians 2:8-9). They are a by-product of someone who is already saved.

More on that in the following article:

Justification by Faith – How believers are declared righteous by God

Completely incorrect. Works are indeed a part of the salvation equation. Were they not, God wouldn't have seen fit to dictate to us in the Bible that they were. No one is "already saved" because the end hasn't come. It's the one who endures to the end who gets saved, according to the Bible.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Saved By Grace Or Saved By Works?
It's both (and more).

If you believe you are saved by grace, then you are saved by grace (all Christians who believe in salvation believe this). If you believe you are saved by works, then you are saved by works.

And a third option you didn't mention: if you believe you are saved by faith, then you are saved by faith. And a forth option: if you believe you are saved by a combination of faith and works, call it faith-works if you will; then you are saved this way. And a fifth option: if you don't believe there is such a thing as salvation, then you are not saved at all (because there is no such thing).

I believe I have addressed all the possible options.

How can these all be true? Because if you believe one of these options, you live your life as if it's true. It colors your thoughts and impacts your day to day conscious experience. It affects you decisions in life and how you relate to others. You make it true by believing it.

(But only the fifth option is really true.)
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
God's Grace produces faith in those accepting of it. Faith produces good works. Good works are not the salvation. Salvation produces good works.

It's uncontroversial when you read it correctly.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Completely incorrect. Works are indeed a part of the salvation equation. Were they not, God wouldn't have seen fit to dictate to us in the Bible that they were. No one is "already saved" because the end hasn't come. It's the one who endures to the end who gets saved, according to the Bible.

The only churches that teach you have to do works to be saved are legalistic churches and cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Salvation is all a work OF GOD. He gives to each man a measure of faith (Romans 12:3). He paid the price at Calvary. And he makes sure no one can snatch one of his believers out of his hand (John 10:28). And while they are believers, they have ALREADY CROSSED OVER UNTO ETERNAL LIFE (John 5:24).

And then he gives to each believer the HOLY SPIRIT (GOD) who enables the believer to do good works.

Like I said, works are the result of our salvation and in-filling by the Holy Spirit, not the cause of it.

Works are what's being rewarded in the afterlife. Here is the relationship between faith, works, rewards, and salvation:

I Corinthians 3:11-15:

"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

The Full Life Study Bible provides these remarks on the above passage:

"HE WILL SUFFER LOSS: There is a future judgment for believers (I John 4:17) as to the degree of their faithfulness to God and the grace given to them during this life on earth (v.10; 4:2-5; 2 Cor.5:10). In that judgment there is the possibility that a believer, although receiving salvation, may experience great loss (Greek zemloo, meaning 'to suffer loss or damage'). The careless believer is in danger of suffering loss or damage in the following ways: (1) a feeling of shame at Christ's coming (2 Ti. 2:15; 1 John 2:28); (2) loss of his or her life's work for God (vv. 12-15); (3) loss of glory and honor before God (cf. Romans 2:7); (4) loss of opportunity for service and authority in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (5) a low position in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (6) loss of rewards (cf. v. 14-15); and (7) repayment for the wrong done to others (Col. 3:24-25).

AS ONE ESCAPING THROUGH THE FLAMES: 'Escaping through the flames' is probably an expression meaning 'barely saved.' God will evaluate the quality of life, influence, teaching, and work in the church of each person. If his work is judged unworthy, he will lose his (heavenly) reward, yet he himself will be saved." ( Full Life Study Bible, pages 1755-56)

Godly works do not result in justification / salvation, but are directed towards the edification of God and, and the welfare and salvation of others, and eventually result in some type of heavenly rewards. For those who may have been saved just prior to death (the thief on the cross), there may not be any works to reward, yet their salvation is yet assured. It is my contention that once a person is regenerated, eventually, if they live long enough, there should be some sort of Godly works in their life (James chapter 2).

p.s. The thief on the cross who was saved to be with Jesus in Paradise: Where's his good works? He was a criminal (bad works). But he believed in Jesus and was saved by God's grace in Christ, and not by works.

Finally, if you're really hooked on works to be saved, do the works Jesus said to do: "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." - John 6:29 (Of course, once you believe you are saved!)
 
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The only churches that teach you have to do works to be saved are legalistic churches and cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Salvation is all a work OF GOD. He gives to each man a measure of faith (Romans 12:3). He paid the price at Calvary. And he makes sure no one can snatch one of his believers out of his hand (John 10:28). And while they are believers, they have ALREADY CROSSED OVER UNTO ETERNAL LIFE (John 5:24).

And then he gives to each believer the HOLY SPIRIT (GOD) who enables the believer to do good works.

Like I said, works are the result of our salvation and in-filling by the Holy Spirit, not the cause of it.

Works are what's being rewarded in the afterlife. Here is the relationship between faith, works, rewards, and salvation:

I Corinthians 3:11-15:

"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

The Full Life Study Bible provides these remarks on the above passage:

"HE WILL SUFFER LOSS: There is a future judgment for believers (I John 4:17) as to the degree of their faithfulness to God and the grace given to them during this life on earth (v.10; 4:2-5; 2 Cor.5:10). In that judgment there is the possibility that a believer, although receiving salvation, may experience great loss (Greek zemloo, meaning 'to suffer loss or damage'). The careless believer is in danger of suffering loss or damage in the following ways: (1) a feeling of shame at Christ's coming (2 Ti. 2:15; 1 John 2:28); (2) loss of his or her life's work for God (vv. 12-15); (3) loss of glory and honor before God (cf. Romans 2:7); (4) loss of opportunity for service and authority in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (5) a low position in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (6) loss of rewards (cf. v. 14-15); and (7) repayment for the wrong done to others (Col. 3:24-25).

AS ONE ESCAPING THROUGH THE FLAMES: 'Escaping through the flames' is probably an expression meaning 'barely saved.' God will evaluate the quality of life, influence, teaching, and work in the church of each person. If his work is judged unworthy, he will lose his (heavenly) reward, yet he himself will be saved." ( Full Life Study Bible, pages 1755-56)

Godly works do not result in justification / salvation, but are directed towards the edification of God and, and the welfare and salvation of others, and eventually result in some type of heavenly rewards. For those who may have been saved just prior to death (the thief on the cross), there may not be any works to reward, yet their salvation is yet assured. It is my contention that once a person is regenerated, eventually, if they live long enough, there should be some sort of Godly works in their life (James chapter 2).

p.s. The thief on the cross who was saved to be with Jesus in Paradise: Where's his good works? He was a criminal (bad works). But he believed in Jesus and was saved by God's grace in Christ, and not by works.

Finally, if you're really hooked on works to be saved, do the works Jesus said to do: "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." - John 6:29 (Of course, once you believe you are saved!)

The only ones who teach the kind of nonsense you're spouting are crazed cults who have long rejected the Bible in favor of their own blasphemous doctrines, like the Catholic Church.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
The only ones who teach the kind of nonsense you're spouting are crazed cults who have long rejected the Bible in favor of their own blasphemous doctrines, like the Catholic Church.

To my knowledge, the Catholic Church believe in salvation by faith and work. You need to do actual good stuff and avoid bad stuff in addition to holding faith in J-C to "be saved".
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
The only ones who teach the kind of nonsense you're spouting are crazed cults who have long rejected the Bible in favor of their own blasphemous doctrines, like the Catholic Church.

Nonsense. The Baptists teach it, the Assemblies of God teach it, and tons of other churches teach it. It's also taught in all the Study Bibles I have. Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches it. John 3:16 teaches it.

But watch out for the cult churches, like the JW's.
 
Nonsense. The Baptists teach it, the Assemblies of God teach it, and tons of other churches teach it. It's also taught in all the Study Bibles I have. Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches it. John 3:16 teaches it.

But watch out for the cult churches, like the JW's.

It's the cult churches like the first few you mentioned that teach it. The Bible does not.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
To my knowledge, the Catholic Church believe in salvation by faith and work. You need to do actual good stuff and avoid bad stuff in addition to holding faith in J-C to "be saved".
Yep, and that's what the Gospel tells us that we must do, which is especially to be found in Jesus' Sermon On the Mount (Matthew ch. 12-14) and his Parable of the Sheep & Goats (Matthew ch. 25).
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Precisely. You're spouting nonsense.

No, you are. You're saying the sacrifice of Jesus wasn't enough to save a person. And that you, in all your bravado and wisdom, are going to work your butt off and finish what Christ was unable to do. Go tell it to your pet carp. He might buy your folly.
 
No, you are. You're saying the sacrifice of Jesus wasn't enough to save a person. And that you, in all your bravado and wisdom, are going to work your butt off and finish what Christ was unable to do. Go tell it to your pet carp. He might buy your folly.

Ok, we've now established that you can't read, since I never said any such thing regarding Jesus' sacrifice. Your dishonesty is well-documented now.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Ok, we've now established that you can't read, since I never said any such thing regarding Jesus' sacrifice. Your dishonesty is well-documented now.

Baloney. You didn't have to say it. It's obvious.

So, how many works exactly is the magic number that you have to add on to Christ's sacrifice? Do you pace your kitchen floor at 3 in the morning sweating out if you've done enough?

As for me, according to John 5:24, I ALREADY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

What's more, there's Philippians 1:6 - "Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

Then there's this from Galatians 3:

1
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3
Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
 
Baloney. You didn't have to say it. It's obvious.

So, how many works exactly is the magic number that you have to add on to Christ's sacrifice? Do you pace your kitchen floor at 3 in the morning sweating out if you've done enough?

As for me, according to John 5:24, I ALREADY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

What's more, there's Philippians 1:6 - "Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

Then there's this from Galatians 3:

1
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3
Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

So we agree that your thinking here is nonsense, wholly unsupported by the scriptures. How many works is the "magic number"? Who said there was a certain amount? A person has to keep exercising faith always, and to claim that their faith is genuine, they have to keep having works to back up their claim. There is no set amount. I never stated or implied that there was. You concluded that all on your own.

And John 5:24 in no way indicates that you or anyone else right now has everlasting life. It's the one who "endures to the end" that gets saved (Matthew 24:13).
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
So we agree that your thinking here is nonsense, wholly unsupported by the scriptures.

NO. We agree your nonsense is typical Jehovah's Witnesses cult clap trap. And you're a legalist - putting an enormous burden on people that you yourself can't justify, except with lies and pick and choose scriptures. So go tell your half-backed folly to somebody else.

It's the grace of God and faith in Jesus plus nothing.
 
NO. We agree your nonsense is typical Jehovah's Witnesses cult clap trap. And you're a legalist - putting an enormous burden on people that you yourself can't justify, except with lies and pick and choose scriptures. So go tell your half-backed folly to somebody else.

It's the grace of God and faith in Jesus plus nothing.

LOL, so says a lying hypocrite, guilty of exactly what he's accusing me of. Typical for someone who knows they don't have a leg to stand on.
 
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