kai
ragamuffin
chill out Tarzan i already said i would take your word for it :yes: post 41 to be exact,
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Saudi judge condemns 'immoral TV'
- Thread starter kai
- Start date
chill out Tarzan i already said i would take your word for it :yes: post 41 to be exact,
maro
muslimah
Kai , if you think following what an imam might say in Iran , or what a judge might say in saudi arabia is the best way of learning about islam ,i may disagree with that...i am not telling you to stop following these stuff if you are interested in them..but what you are following is what muslims turned to be nowadays...not all muslims..but some of them...This is not how someone learns about a particular religion
first , this is the lowest and worst point in the islamic history , and no one will argue about that..second , you talk about the ummah as one piece...islam has many different school of thoughts..and unless you are aware of the whole picture you might get lost in what those think and what those believe !!...
If you truely want to undersatnd a religion ,the first logic step is to read what the quran has to say , before reading what the BBC has to say...The BBC wants to entertain the audience afterall.. and that's why i don't think updating the article was a very appealing choice for them..
kai
ragamuffin
Ok i agree with you but i cannot ignore the BBC its ingrained into British society as the most prestigious and impartial news media.Although i did post a couple of other news outlets too like al jazeera who havnt updated it either.
i post most of my stuff to ask ,to ask Muslims here their opinion? you would be surprised how many PMs i get from "muslims saying the other "muslims " are not really muslims, and i know you get a lot of idiots just being islamophobic but thats not what i am about. I am just curious. and i have a lot of respect for some of the Muslims here (not all of them ) but some speak lots of sense and i can get what they mean . and thanks (your one of them by the way)
it can be emotional and its serious stuff so i understand if people get upset.
Peace kai
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kai
ragamuffin
good question i dont think "Shameless" would go down well
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
TashaN I think you are misunderstanding how the American culture works. It's natural and even encouraged that Americans speak thier minds on just about everything and anything. It's just the way things are done here.
In theory, we can. The problem lies not with the government, but with the people. The people do nothing about it, and the government exploits that.
Democracy is fine in itself, I think. But like with Communism, it just doesn't work well in large countries like America. Back when it was just the 13 colonies, it was better.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
-Don't remember who said it; it's quoted in a computer game.
NOTE: that's all I'll say on this issue on this thread, for the sake of staying on topic.
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
I would like to know which Muslims support the judges decision?
Actually, many people are wondering too, and many saudian scholars are trying to understand why that judge said what he said and based on what.
Today one scholar was questioning that. I read it on the same local newspaper i used before. It's one of the most famous and decent newspapers in Saudi Arabia.
Arabic source:
ÌÑíÏÉ ÇáæØä ÇáÓÚæÏíÉ :: ÓáãÇä Èä ÓÚæÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇáÚÒíÒ Âá ÓÚæÏ*::ãÇ ÇáÝÓÇÏ ÇáãÌíÒ ááÞÊá¿
Translated English source "the language might be annoying to some":
Translated version of http://www.alwatan.com.sa/news/writerdetail.asp?issueno=2912&id=7430&Rname=
The one who is questioning it is a Member of the Departement of Quran and its Sciences in the Faculty of Theology, Islamic University of Imam Muhammad bin Saud.
P.S. I think the first paragraph might give you an idea of what kind of things they are trying to discuss but i don't think you would understand anything beyond that. Even the arabic one is a bit difficult for a non-scholar to follow line by line. It's a scholary level of debating and producing proofs. But in general, this scholar is rejecting the interpretation of that judge on question.
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kai
ragamuffin
wow you are not kidding, this would need to go to GCHQ for decoding, i cant make head nor tail of it.
.lava
Veteran Member
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
gnostic
The Lost One
gnostic said:
.lava said:
Why should I treat Muslims better than Christians or Jews? Why should I treat Islam better than Christianity and Judaism?
You all (not you personally; Muslims in general, and including Christians and Jews) think you are so special, the so-called "Chose One" complex (actually this is a form of the Superior Complex). You have one rule for yourself (again not you personally) and one for those follow your respective religion (not just Islam). Hence you are speaking with "fork tongue" when you speak of "peace" or "mercy".
Islam speak of peace, but hidden underneath all the pretty words is a threat. Your Qur'an speak of making war against the opponents are force to submit. Is that not true?
You should realise when view and listen to some Muslims on air, including clerics, imans and other leaders, who claimed to speak for Islam and for Muslims, they are sometimes their own worse enemies. They are sometimes Islam's worse enemy.
I don't know about you, but I can't make head or tail of who actually speak for Islam, and I can't distinguish those so-called "True Muslim" and those who are not.
So how do expect me to respond?
Ignore what they say?
Do I give them the benefits of doubt that's not what they meant when they speak freely?
If they do speak, how do I tell that they do speak for "Islam" or for "Muslims"? Do you always know if they speak for Islam (or for Muslims) or not?
When I hear what some Muslims say, and what they say may happen to be wrong, you get Muslim apologists trying to change the meaning of what the others have said, by making excuses, or deny it outright.
I have the tendency to take things literally on what people say...and I don't means just from Muslims; I mean from almost everyone. That's because I am the type of person speak out frankly...often brutally so....still trying to learn the meaning of tact.... It often come out sounding rude or mean. I don't mean to be rude or mean, but that's the way I am.
Why am I like this?
I supposed that because I don't have a lot of patient in "reading between the lines". I simply don't like beating around the bushes, so often I view that people are like that too, so I take their meaning, often "literally". If you get cryptic, I will often misunderstand your meaning.
If you think I am saying something "wrong" and my view about "Islam" or about "Muslims", then say it. Explain to me without being rude, and just maybe I will grasp it.
.lava
Veteran Member
Hahahah. Damn Saudis. Always crack me up. xD
lol, These "Saudi Judges” are the butt end of all our jokes even in the muslim world. I'm Egyptian and instead of having "redneck" jokes we have Saudi jokes. Seriously, [FONT="] most Saudis are so passionate in their beliefs that they express it to the point of exaggeration. The following is an excerpt from my AP Psychology book about cross culture dialogue:[/FONT]
[FONT="]Cultures also vary in their expressiveness. Those with roots in northern European culture often perceive people from Mediterranean cultures as warm and charming, but inefficient. The Mediterraneans, in turn, see Europeans as efficient but cold and preoccupied with punctuality. {…}When cultures mix, misunderstandings are commonplace. This was disastrously apparent after Iraqi representatives met in a last minute effort to avert the war in Kuwait. Secretary of State James baker clearly warned that the United States would attack Iraq if they did not leave Kuwait. But he said it so calmly that Saddam Hussein’s advisors reported, “The Americans will not attack… they are calm. They are not angry.” The Iraqi style, by contrast, was expressive to the point of exaggeration: “If you attack you will face the mother of all battles!!” Cross-cultural expert Harry Triandis (1994) speculates that had baker communicated in a traditional ( rather than a westernized) Iraqi style- by banging the table, looking ferocious, and snarling; “We are going to make hamburgers out of you,” his message would have been read correctly.
[/FONT]
[FONT="] – David Myers. Psychology 7th Edition. [/FONT]
lol, These "Saudi Judges” are the butt end of all our jokes even in the muslim world. I'm Egyptian and instead of having "redneck" jokes we have Saudi jokes. Seriously, [FONT="] most Saudis are so passionate in their beliefs that they express it to the point of exaggeration. The following is an excerpt from my AP Psychology book about cross culture dialogue:[/FONT]
[FONT="]Cultures also vary in their expressiveness. Those with roots in northern European culture often perceive people from Mediterranean cultures as warm and charming, but inefficient. The Mediterraneans, in turn, see Europeans as efficient but cold and preoccupied with punctuality. {…}When cultures mix, misunderstandings are commonplace. This was disastrously apparent after Iraqi representatives met in a last minute effort to avert the war in Kuwait. Secretary of State James baker clearly warned that the United States would attack Iraq if they did not leave Kuwait. But he said it so calmly that Saddam Hussein’s advisors reported, “The Americans will not attack… they are calm. They are not angry.” The Iraqi style, by contrast, was expressive to the point of exaggeration: “If you attack you will face the mother of all battles!!” Cross-cultural expert Harry Triandis (1994) speculates that had baker communicated in a traditional ( rather than a westernized) Iraqi style- by banging the table, looking ferocious, and snarling; “We are going to make hamburgers out of you,” his message would have been read correctly.
[/FONT]
[FONT="] – David Myers. Psychology 7th Edition. [/FONT]
maro
muslimah
we ? who are "we" ? I am an egyptian too , and i don't think we are sooo perfect to start making jokes of others...can't you just criticize one man without putting a whole country on your * joking list * ?
.lava
Veteran Member
because;
3 / AL- `IMRAN - 7: He (Allah) is the one Who has sent the Book down to you. In it are some basic or fundamental verses (of established meaning; closed to doubts or comments), which are (clear and meaningful enough) in UMMUL KITAB (Mother of the Book). Others are allegorical (need explanation for the real meaning; have hidden meaning) verses. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the allegorical part of the Book, wishing to do mischief and interpreting them as they want. However no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are RASIHUN (firmly grounded in knowledge; the owner of RUSUH) say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is sent down from our Lord." None will grasp the Message but ULUL ELBAB (men of understanding; men to whom the secrets of Allah are revealed)
.