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crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Please allow me to stir the pot for a bit. :kissingcat:

Satan does not seem to be tied to any one being--it can move from being to being. For instance, Moses took up the adversarial role against Pharoah, who was regarded to be the representation of god on earth.

Here's an image of Michelangelo's statue of Moses: :smilingimp:
%27Moses%27_by_Michelangelo_JBU310.jpg
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
Does anyone else here think that Satan was originally a Proto-Indo-European deity?
I don't - the essence of the Dark One can be found in every culture, so also in Indo-European ones. But I saw no evidence that the Jews took their concept of Satan from the Indo-Europeans, at least not the original one, as in the Book of Hiob.

The later, more dualistic interpretations seem to be partly derived from other eastern myths (e.g. the fall of angels), partly from Zoroastrianism (which would be an Indo-European culture). Is this what you are referring to?

There is some evidence that points towards it, such as the semi-false cognates between Romantic and Eastern languages like Sanksrit.
What do you mean by "semi-false cognates"? Romance languages and Sanskrit do have a lot of actual cognates, as they ultimately both have the same parent language. But what does that have to do with this theory?

There are some Indo-European myths involving dragons, bearing similarities to those of surrounding religions.
Dragon myths are very common, that's true. But well, I have to ask again, which concept of Satan are we talking about? As far as I know he was only associated with a dragon in the Book of Revelation, not in any Jewish text that I know of (except for the snake in the garden of Eden-story, if you wanna count that).

I think there's a good possibility that "Satan" was the central intellectual wind deity in their pantheon when the Indo-Europeans were in Ukraine. Satan became Wotan and then Odin in the North, Ea in the South, and Satang in the East.
When exactly were the Indo-Europeans there? How would that have spread to the Babylonians? And who is "Satang" supposed to be? I only find this: Thai baht - Wikipedia
Also, wind deity? I don't think a general wind deity has been reconstructed - I think I read about a reconstructed sky deity, but not wind nor intellectuality. What are your sources on this? And what are your sources for the linguistic relationship between the names you mentioned? I am a linguist and it sounds pretty unlikely to me to find relations there.

Now, what is really quite amusing is the fact that Satan became the word for "adversary" in Hebrew, while a variation meant "truth" in Sanksrit, which is an Indo-European language.
I told you before, "truth" is one of a thousand meanings that "sat" has in Sanskrit - the basic meaning is just "to be". And it happens often that words of similar pronunciation have different meanings in different languages without any relationship - there are only a finite number of sound combinations possible, and something as short as "sat" is bound to appear in many languages - in German for example "satt" means "not hungry", "having eaten enough", and "Saat" (same, but with long a) means "seed".
So, hardly enough evidence.

I know this sounds like some JOS bull****, but really, the more I piece together of this, the more interesting this becomes.
Yes it does, and without that disclaimer I might have ignored you for it.
 
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Liu

Well-Known Member
Please allow me to stir the pot for a bit. :kissingcat:

Satan does not seem to be tied to any one being--it can move from being to being. For instance, Moses took up the adversarial role against Pharoah, who was regarded to be the representation of god on earth.

Here's an image of Michelangelo's statue of Moses: :smilingimp:
%27Moses%27_by_Michelangelo_JBU310.jpg
Yes, Moses' horns are a curious thing. They stem from a mistranslation, though, and not from any "satanic" interpretation of him, but that shall not stop anyone to interpret him that way now.
Lol, it might be fun to actually incorporate him into a satanistic pantheon. Now that I think about it, he also had a staff in the form of a serpent.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Does anyone else here think that Satan was originally a Proto-Indo-European deity? There is some evidence that points towards it, such as the semi-false cognates between Romantic and Eastern languages like Sanksrit. There are some Indo-European myths involving dragons, bearing similarities to those of surrounding religions. I think there's a good possibility that "Satan" was the central intellectual wind deity in their pantheon when the Indo-Europeans were in Ukraine. Satan became Wotan and then Odin in the North, Ea in the South, and Satang in the East.

Now, what is really quite amusing is the fact that Satan became the word for "adversary" in Hebrew, while a variation meant "truth" in Sanksrit, which is an Indo-European language.

I know this sounds like some JOS bull****, but really, the more I piece together of this, the more interesting this becomes.

Sanskrit is likely tied to Ayrian immigration so the language similarities are not too unexpected.

As for the dragon attributes, nothing about Satan was traditionally a dragon. Christians introduced that similarity with a single verse in Revelation but Satan had no such association for 1000+ years prior. Also, I forget where, but the reason so many cultures have dragons is that they have all the traits of what we fear most in other predators so it's more of an instinctual archetype that many cultures share.

I think what happened is later religions misunderstood what Satan represented in Judaism, likely due to how Satan was used as both an angelic title and a verb/pronoun type of thing, and rolled it into other ideas. Remember that the first Christians were Greek, and the New Testement is written in Greek, not Hebrew. That's why popular depictions of Satan have so many features seen in Greek deities. There was no bassline Satan to start off with, is what I mean. It as just a concept in of itself that had features of existing deities added to it. Look how the Greeks also saw the concepts of Daemons as good, and Christians see Demons as evil. There is a clear "demonization" of the Greek panth andeon any angel that Satan might of been was used as a "scapegoat" in the process.

Also keep in mind that as Christianity spread, it would demonize the local deities as devils misleading the natives. So over time Satan had more and more association and shared features with pagan and native deities. So it's only expected that some people might percieve a connection, but it wouldn't be there contemporarily.

So I don't see any links with Satan and other deities before Christianity, but there is some speculation about a Norse-Hindu connection.
 
These are not my opinions, simply some bits of information I found while researching, anyone is welcome to correct or go over it:

- "The Serpent Lord was Enki but in parts of Chaldea he had been called Shaitan." - Genesis of the Grail Kings by Laurence Gardner. Shaitan is arabic for Satan. Enki is a Serpent God, the Serpent is the symbol of Satan.
- In ancient Sumeria the epithet "SAT-AN" refers to "supreme chieftain of the Annuna; Hence God" who appears to be Enki according to the Eridu Scriptures.
- Easter represents the time to celebrate the eternal life [meaning of Sat-An]. Brought about by performing the Magnum Opus. In Sanskirt SAT means Truth. Truth in the ancient world was another name for illumination and transformation of the soul. When the kundalini power rises it brings a person to SAT by illumination of the consciousness it brings which is what they where depicting by the title of Truth...... This is why the strength of the soul is its ability to reach levels of truth in the Egyptian texts. Levels of empowerment. An as the prefix of Ananta Shesha which is the primordial serpent. Depicted as a serpent in a golden circle clutching its tail. The sign of the Magnum Opus. This golden serpent Is given the title of "Eternity" [Ananta]. And refers to the title of "Lord of Time." As time in this sense relates to the perfection of the soul. SATAN translates out to a title of: "Eternal [in the context of perfected] life."
- "Sat-An" is a title for the spiritual sun. "An" in Egypt is the title of the primordial sun God. The "Ankh" which from the Egyptian texts is the symbol of the four elements and its root AN is the ancient title for the solar God. The Ankh is the name of the divine being, and the sign of the four elements and the influence the sun has over them all.
"Sat" is also a title of the spiritual sun as the power behind creation and its granting of liberation from time. This is why Sat-An means Eternal Life and Eternal Truth. The terms relate to the Magnum Opus and the super consciousness that comes with it.
The Gods in Sumeria where called the AN's. ANunnaki builds on this. To note the spiritual sun is generated by the union of water and fire or male and female its the primordial element and power. - Debunking the notion of SS being a "Saturn cult". - Pastebin.com
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Yes, Moses' horns are a curious thing. They stem from a mistranslation, though, and not from any "satanic" interpretation of him, but that shall not stop anyone to interpret him that way now.
Lol, it might be fun to actually incorporate him into a satanistic pantheon. Now that I think about it, he also had a staff in the form of a serpent.
Just the thought about how it would **** off the neonazi JoS makes it tempting!
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
These are not my opinions, simply some bits of information I found while researching, anyone is welcome to correct or go over it:

- "The Serpent Lord was Enki but in parts of Chaldea he had been called Shaitan." - Genesis of the Grail Kings by Laurence Gardner. Shaitan is arabic for Satan. Enki is a Serpent God, the Serpent is the symbol of Satan.
- In ancient Sumeria the epithet "SAT-AN" refers to "supreme chieftain of the Annuna; Hence God" who appears to be Enki according to the Eridu Scriptures.
- Easter represents the time to celebrate the eternal life [meaning of Sat-An]. Brought about by performing the Magnum Opus. In Sanskirt SAT means Truth. Truth in the ancient world was another name for illumination and transformation of the soul. When the kundalini power rises it brings a person to SAT by illumination of the consciousness it brings which is what they where depicting by the title of Truth...... This is why the strength of the soul is its ability to reach levels of truth in the Egyptian texts. Levels of empowerment. An as the prefix of Ananta Shesha which is the primordial serpent. Depicted as a serpent in a golden circle clutching its tail. The sign of the Magnum Opus. This golden serpent Is given the title of "Eternity" [Ananta]. And refers to the title of "Lord of Time." As time in this sense relates to the perfection of the soul. SATAN translates out to a title of: "Eternal [in the context of perfected] life."
- "Sat-An" is a title for the spiritual sun. "An" in Egypt is the title of the primordial sun God. The "Ankh" which from the Egyptian texts is the symbol of the four elements and its root AN is the ancient title for the solar God. The Ankh is the name of the divine being, and the sign of the four elements and the influence the sun has over them all.
"Sat" is also a title of the spiritual sun as the power behind creation and its granting of liberation from time. This is why Sat-An means Eternal Life and Eternal Truth. The terms relate to the Magnum Opus and the super consciousness that comes with it.
The Gods in Sumeria where called the AN's. ANunnaki builds on this. To note the spiritual sun is generated by the union of water and fire or male and female its the primordial element and power. - Debunking the notion of SS being a "Saturn cult". - Pastebin.com

Oh sweet Lady Eris, great is the confusion you bring upon this world!

Seriously, please study some language history (or even just general history) before buying into such theories.
I wouldn't even know where to start debunking this. Just one hint: Many of the cultures which your post refers to have centuries if not millenia between each other. Even if words like "Satan" were borrowed from one to another, they would have gone through so many sound changes that you wouldn't be able to recognize them anymore.

Yes, Moses' horns are a curious thing. They stem from a mistranslation, though, and not from any "satanic" interpretation of him, but that shall not stop anyone to interpret him that way now.
Lol, it might be fun to actually incorporate him into a satanistic pantheon. Now that I think about it, he also had a staff in the form of a serpent.

Just the thought about how it would **** off the neonazi JoS makes it tempting!
Lol, didn't even think of that.
 
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