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Featured Satanists Claim Abortion a Religious Ritual

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, May 10, 2022.

  1. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi Nakosis. It's good to see you are anti-abortion but a word of caution is given to those who despise government in 2 Peter 2 "Yahweh knows how to deliver the holy out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment to the day of judgment; 10 but chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of defilement, and despise government. Daring, stubborn, they tremble not to rail at dignities: 11 whereas angels, though greater in might and power, bring not a railing accusation against them before Yahweh."

    I want to remind you that when Yahweh's Kingdom comes it will be a government over this earth. Further, throughout the Bible government would appear to be a part of Yahweh's plan.
     
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  2. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    The Satanic Temple (TST) is one of many institutions fighting for abortion rights in the state of Texas. Those curious to learn more about the sect would be interested to know that a belief in Satan is an optional requirement for membership. As is belief in any deity, for that matter.

    It is disturbing, you are right, and not just the music. Abortion is wrong. Yahweh is the great author of life. To destroy life, especially those innocent lives, is completely wrong.

    Millions of innocent little babies are dying each year as the people of the world become psychologically hardened against the sanctity of life. The sad commentary is that those who are seeking to live righteously are not nearly vocal enough in their opposition to sin. How can one abort an innocent baby anyway? That’s a life. A human life. It is not our job to destroy human life, but to foster it and protect it. Life was breathed in to Adam and he became a living human being. Life came from Yahweh. We should be life giving entity’s too right, we want to be like Yahweh don’t we? What gets me is that abortion is sometimes, maybe even often, used to hide away the infidelity of the parents. The evil situation we are in makes me wonder when euthanasia will come in to force with the utter disregard for human life. We have to cry out against abortion because it’s totally wrong and evil and those who engage in it and don’t repent are sinning against their own souls.

    This Satanic group's first two tenets clearly state:
    • One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
    • The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
    How do these tenets apply at all to the fact that they are supporting the destruction of innocent life? How is that justice for the innocent baby? How is that compassion or natural affection to a baby? Absolutely ridiculous. Would Yahshua my Savior support abortion? Why Yahshua's parents had to flee and get out of the country to avoid Herod's attempt to kill all children under the age of 2. Yahshua could have been killed and we wouldn't have a sin-bearer. I absolutely disdain abortion and I know Yahweh does too.
     
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  3. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    I look forward to the day when I join the underground resistance movement against such a Hellish government.
     
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  4. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    Marriage is a universal concept and has been seen in all cultures throughout human history in some form.

    Religion has nothing to do with a woman demanding an obligation - be it societal or legal - from a man before engaging in sexual activity with him - because she incurs the majority of the risk of that activity.

    Even though the exact definition of marriage varies from culture to culture - and over time - the foundation of marriage has been to protect women and children.
    Yes and No.

    Of course, everyone is free to follow their conscience - but they should always temper their conscience with knowledge, maturity and experience.

    This is why societies throughout history have often restricted the free will of children - because even though they have a conscience - they lack the knowledge, maturity and experience needed to judge the risk of any decision.

    Adults - men and women - should also be judging available information in order to make rational and reasonable decisions.

    Sexual activity leads to children - therefore - women should safeguard themselves from potential abuse and rejection by formalizing their union with the man who wants to have sexual activity with them.
    I did not claim that the motivation for sex - or even marriage - was about having children.

    What I said was, "I would claim that women should stop having sex entirely until they are married and ready to have children."

    Meaning - no one should have sex unless they are ready for the possibility of children - because sex leads to children.

    And no woman should consider having sex - opening themselves up to that amount of risk - without safeguards and assurances.

    It's like saying, "No one should start a fire without first being ready for the possibility that the fire could spread."

    We have the right to decide what we want to do with our lives - but wisdom dictates that we prepare ourselves adequately before engaging in risky behavior - because we can harm ourselves and others.

    For those fire-starters - its having a fire extinguisher nearby - for those women who want to have sex - its marriage.
    What are you even talking about?

    People who are not ready to have children should not be engaging in sexual activity - since sexual activity leads to children.

    This concept applies to all consequences of activities that a person is not ready to accept.
    Personal accountability is a measure of the capacity to be answerable for personal actions.

    Murdering one's child because they are inconvenient is a person not being accountable for their actions.

    And not allowing a mother to murder her not-yet-born child is not "forcing" anything on anyone.

    Women in this country have been "privileged" to have the authority to decide which of their not-yet-born children live or die - but that is a "privilege" - not a right - and taking this "privilege" away is not discrimination or "forcing" anything upon any woman.

    Murdering one's not-yet-born child is a "forcible act" though.
    How is it determined?
    Regardless - you still don't want these women to know all of their options or to be equipped with all relevant information.

    I think it is interesting that you consider this whole "not caring what others want them to do" thing to be such a virtue when a woman wants to murder her not-yet-born child - but you would probably think differently if it were about someone's "preferred pronoun".
    Many people object to the term - because it is an attempt to obfuscate what is happening - the murder of a not-yet-born child.

    Women consider murdering their not-yet-born children because they are scared, desperate or angry - and only a fanatical idealogue would tell these women to act based solely on those emotions - without considering all available options and relevant information.

    You're like the Emperor in Return of the Jedi - "Good - give into your [fear], [desperation], [anger] - and strike down the innocent human being that you created. Absolve yourself of all personal accountability. Ignore facts about children in the womb. Don't consider any other option. Give in to the Dark Side!"
    Yes - I do.

    I demand that all doctors graduate from medical school before they get their medical license.

    I demand that all police officers undergo training and graduate before getting their badges.

    I demand that all criminals be convicted of their crimes by means of a fair trial before they are executed.

    I demand that all women be informed about all available options and all relevant information before they decide to murder their not-yet-born children.

    Only a fearmonger - a rabble-rouser - demagogue - propagandist - or liar would push for people to make life-changing decisions without taking all this into account and pondering on the decision before they make them.
    Every member of society plays a small part in every decision every other member of society makes.
    I wonder if you would apply this standard to anyone else besides women who are considering murdering her not-yet-born children.
    So - you are against vegetarians and vegans telling other people that "Meat is murder"?

    They shouldn't be allowed to share their opinion?
    You don't seem to understand how conversations work.

    Another RF member asked me a question - requesting to know my opinion on this subject - and I obliged them.

    You seem to believe that me sharing my opinion with someone who asked me to share it is somehow "telling others how they should live" - why is that?

    Also - aren't all your comments directed at me - telling me what I should and should not do - you telling me "how I should live"?
    I do - I value honesty - unlike "pro-choice" activists.

    You want all women to be in the dark about what options they have and about what is in their womb - while I want them to know everything.

    Because I'm honest.
    We are all products of what we consume.

    I want light and life - while you seem to want darkness and death - because of what we have decided to consume.
     
    #324 Fallen Prophet, May 18, 2022
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  5. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    They are rambling, but though I find them weird this is entirely subjective, for example you keep falsely referring to a legal abortion as murder, that's rhetoric using sophistry.

    It's not murder, that is what you are arguing for it to be.

    It's not murder, that is what you are arguing for it to be. See rambling, on and on with the same false rhetoric...

    Sigh..It's not murder, that is what you are arguing for it to be.

    I believe you are free to choose to abstain, now are you prepared to reciprocate, and let others choose? If not the difference is not about beliefs, it is about control.

    Misogynistic, and a spectacularly stupid claim.

    They have complete autonomy over their own reproductive rights, so again a spectacularly stupid claim.

    A man gives his consent when he had sex, that is the extent of his reproductive rights, we decide what happens with our bodies, and women decide what happens with theirs. His wishes after conception are an attempt to control women, and dictate what they do with their bodies.

    Sigh.. rambling and weird again...It's not murder, that is what you are arguing for it to be.

    You want to be a woman? Well luckily there are options today, but as far as reproduction goes those remain limited by the biological accident of our births.

    Dear oh dear, this is what he meant by rambling and weird no doubt...It's not murder, that is what you are arguing for it to be.
     
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  6. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Or even stop causing them...;)
     
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  7. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    4th amendment.

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons"

    That is a legal right to bodily autonomy. A blastocyst, zygote or foetus is not an individual person, since it is part of a woman's body, topologically connected.
     
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  8. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Luckily I don't have to worry about, nor pay any attention to, fictional totalitarian despots. So you can revel in the fiction if it cheers you on in this dreary "veil of tears", and through this suffering of the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune".

    Have your toys by all means, play with them, enjoy them, but don't try to bring your toys to my house, or ever insist that I must play with your toys.
     
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  9. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    I agree, and that is why it now encompasses gay couples, as of course it should.
     
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  10. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Is it possible you don't see the meaning of you expressing "what you want" for other people, who are more than capable of ascertaining this for themselves?

    A more accurate assertion would be, that you want to control women, so they will behave in line with your beliefs. It's ironic how often theists tell me their deity has a plan, then insist they must enforce it on others.
     
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  11. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    :rolleyes::D
     
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  12. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    I thought that we were discussing premarital sex. Your words were, "I would claim that women should stop having sex entirely until they are married and ready to have children."

    I thought we were discussing women, not children. My comment was, "Women should do as their consciences direct them, not as a holy book or a religion directs them."

    Abuse and rejection? Did you mean venereal disease and unwanted pregnancy. And getting married protects you from neither, nor abuse and rejection.

    Agreed, but I thought we were discussing abortion. And what's all this talk of accountability? Accountable to whom? Somebody else's god? Nobody has any duty or obligation to gods that doesn't agree to subject themselves to such. The woman is accountable to herself, and to the law. She can choose to include others if she likes, such as the father, or not.

    How do we know that an egg doesn't suffer when we scramble it? The lack of sentience is a good start.

    Have you ever gone to bed with a headache and then awakened with it, but had no experience of headache while unconscious? What does that tell you about the relationship between sentience and suffering? Do you suppose that people whose heads are instantly destroyed in an explosion suffer? How about people dying of a narcotic overdose?
     
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  13. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    So you object to people using language to obfuscate, do you?

    My comment was, "Demanded? You have no standing to demand anything in this matter." If all you meant was to express your preferences, then yes, you can do that. The word demand generally implies an insistence and a threat of consequences for not complying.

    Because your comments are all about how you want others to live. Perhaps if you framed your preferences in terms of how you should live rather than in terms of what others ought to do to meet your standards for propriety.

    How is you mischaracterizing me and imputing dishonest intent to my words you being honest?

    And there it is again. Dishonest and defamatory again. You don't seem to be able to resist passing judgment on others for not seeing things your way, but like I said, you come by it honestly. It's the principal characteristic of the Christian deity, who sits there watching our every move and keeping account come Judgment Day.
     
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  14. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    Let us hope not.
     
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  15. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    Pathetic.

    As in using pathos instead of logos or ethos.
    "In its adjectival form: pathetic from παθητικός) appeals to the emotions of the audience and elicits feelings that already reside in them.[4] Pathos is a used most often in rhetoric (in which it is considered one of the three modes of persuasion, alongside ethos and logos)"
    "Pathos tends to use "loaded" words that will get some sort of reaction."
    "A key feature of that picture is that succumbing to pathos is an error of reason - an intellectual mistake.[5] " - Pathos - Wikipedia

    If you want to debate, bring evidence and arguments, not sermons.
     
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  16. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi Viker. Good morning. Have you never read Isaiah 9:6-8?

    "For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty El,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
    there will be no end.
    He will reign on David’s throne
    and over his kingdom,
    establishing and upholding it
    with justice and righteousness
    from that time on and forever.
    The zeal of the Yahweh of hosts
    will accomplish this."

    What, may I ask, is the problem with having a righteous government ruling over the nations?
     
  17. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    That what is righteous to you may not be so to me or in reverse.
     
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  18. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    I don't see anything "righteous" about any of it at all. I believe in self-governance. Government, hovering above me, without my consent is tyranny. No matter how many bubbles, rainbows and kittens others would paint it with, it's still tyranny.
     
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  19. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi mikkel_the_dane. Good morning. Maybe so. However, Deuteronomy 6:25 gives the definition of righteousness which is: "25 And it shall be righteousness unto us, if we observe to do all this commandment before Yahweh our Elohim, as he hath commanded us. " Righteousness is the keeping of the commandments of Yahweh and Yahweh's Law is very good. Psalm 19:7 says "The law of Yahweh is perfect, restoring the soul..." By obeying it, it will produce good fruit in the lives of those who subject themselves to it. As a matter of fact, it is my opinion that all of the world's problems would be solved if the commandments of Yahweh were kept.
     
  20. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    And which commandments do you keep, which do you not keep? Sacrifice any animals recently? Do you eat fat? Which ones to obey and not?

    I do well enough without following the tenets, precepts or "laws" of another religion.
     
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