Satanists are not Abrahamics

[Viker]

"Satanists are not Abrahamics"

I totally agree. Satanism doesn't share the promise to Abraham and is not messianic. It's only a brilliant name steal.

I don't see a correlation between Satanism and Hinduism either. Many in the LHP, like myself, respect and admire Kali and even Shiva.

I took a look at the other thread. I don't do blood rituals. And I have only attended one Satanic Mass ( a parody of Catholic Mass and the Eucharist ) in the early 90s when I was still LaVeyan.

Most of my rituals come from my experiences and studies in witchcraft/paganism in general. But some do seem to mock Christianity a little. I even believe in making rituals up.

I have a theory that most of the world's religions share common things in rituals and practices. Ritualism and religion go well with humankind.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Satanism is dependent on Christianity. It borrows from Christianity and perverts it.

 

[firedragon]

Saw this thread in the Hindu Dir: Kali and Satan??

Since I'm not in that Dir thought I'd comment on this. Satanists I think are new. They are a reactionary movement to Christianity started in the 20th century. They're not an invention of Christians or Muslims, and abrahamics did not invent satanic rituals real or fake. Also satanic rituals, far as I am aware, are intended to antagonize Christianity and Islam, not Hindu religions. Christians certainly didn't envision copying Hindu rituals.

Maybe some Theosophists did. They would do something like that, possibly. They liked combining religions in syncretic ways. I think they are a more likely origin than abrahamics.

In Christianity and Islam we have had a lot of people allege that there are Satanists, but we don't have satanic rituals.

I believe that Satanism (if that is the correct term) is not just rituals. It is a philosophy of its own. Its a way of life.

 

[crossfire]

Maybe, but I'm a non-literal reader of the gospels and think they are communications between Jews about how to respond to the Roman situation, perhaps to the Titus situation. I don't feel confident that the gospels are written before the fall of the temple. I'd say that there is a lot of hyperbole which distracts outsiders like ourselves when we assume these gospels are about dumping the temple system. Pacifism isn't the only possible response to the Roman situation but is the one the one chosen at that time, and maybe the gospels are some kind of argument for that outcome. I don't think shock tactics are necessary if Titus has recently burned the temple and crucified thirty thousand men. With that recent horror we are going to be very moved by a story about a crucified man. We are shocked already and looking for some positive outlet for our pain, some meaning to give to all of that horror.

Ok, so chips down what I think: Cain is taken over by his anger, by sin that desires to own him. He slays his brother, but because its in a mad fit of rage he is marked and exiled instead of put to death. This is about the cities of refuge and mercy for murderers. It is part of the books of the law. We can wonder if it reflects pre-Israelite strife but don't know. The obstacle I have with what you've said there is that this entire book of Genesis is about pacifism in my view. It has arguments against: war, cities, slavery, accumulation of large tracts of property. Sacrifices seem like a substitute for vengeance, perhaps between the tribes; but this is all made up since the scriptures don't record a whole lot of enmity between the twelve tribes. Its only through archeology that we ever hear of the pantheon of the twelve.

A lot in there.
Yes, there is Molech. I can see there that perhaps there is human sacrifice alluded to in pre-Israelite times. I'm not convinced that herdsmen are the brutes in the story. It seems more likely to me that the cities are the source of scourges. In particular the tombs of the pharoahs and their rock structures record that they continually subjugate and pillage herding cultures. It is part of their religion to do this, to be dominant, to steal things to give to their temple. All of the surrounding dynasties are jealous of Egypt, that it is ruled by a deity not just a king. The Caananites live in the middle of a bunch of dynasties and are probably getting pinched for over a thousand years. They are probably a mass of shepherds and escaped slaves, ex convicts, ex soldiers...very mixed people and motley...I imagine.

"The nomadic herdsmen could only amass what they could carry. Consequentially, the nomadic herdsmen would often raid the agricultural settlements for their wealth, often killing all the men and carrying the women and children off to be sex slaves and other types of slaves." This actually is what the Pharoahs record doing to the surrounding herdsmand for a thousand years, except for Akhenaten of course. Herdsmen might of done this, too; but I don't know. Herding seems like very honest work, but sure they could be very rough. It would take a lot for tribe s of herdsmen to band together and get over their differences.

I remember reading in the Book of Genesis about the Egyptians (agricultural) not getting along with herdsmen, So Joseph tells Pharoah that they will settle in the Nile Delta area.

"It was the rise of Patriarchy." Herders? Maybe, but it was the city kings who had rules like "The king must sleep with every virgin." Because they could. I don't know much about the theory of patriarchy and tend to associate it with the rise of large scale agriculture.

Deuteronomy 20:10-15

10 “When you approach a city to fight against it, you must make an offer of peace. 11 If it accepts your offer of peace and opens its gates to you, all the people found in it will become forced laborers for you and serve you. 12 However, if it does not make peace with you but wages war against you, lay siege to it. 13 When the Lord your God hands it over to you, you must strike down all its males with the sword. 14 But you may take the women, children, animals, and whatever else is in the city—all its spoil—as plunder. You may enjoy the spoil of your enemies that the Lord your God has given you. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are far away from you and are not among the cities of these nations.​

If the captured women are slaves, and their children are sons/daughters of slaves, who runs the show? The Patriarch! The sons of slaves may go raid a city one day, capture his own women, and become a patriarch himself.

 

[Clara Tea]

Saw this thread in the Hindu Dir: Kali and Satan??

Since I'm not in that Dir thought I'd comment on this. Satanists I think are new. They are a reactionary movement to Christianity started in the 20th century. They're not an invention of Christians or Muslims, and abrahamics did not invent satanic rituals real or fake. Also satanic rituals, far as I am aware, are intended to antagonize Christianity and Islam, not Hindu religions. Christians certainly didn't envision copying Hindu rituals.

Maybe some Theosophists did. They would do something like that, possibly. They liked combining religions in syncretic ways. I think they are a more likely origin than abrahamics.

In Christianity and Islam we have had a lot of people allege that there are Satanists, but we don't have satanic rituals.

Many practice Satanic rituals. For example, President George H. W. Bush and his son, President W. Bush both were members of the Satanic cult Skull and Bones...which is a club that one joined in college, and whose membership continued into adulthood.

Skull and Bones has its own bible, and often requires Satanic rituals (example, W's grandpa, Prescott Bush, stole the skeleton of a famous Indian chief (allegedly Geronimo) for a Satanic ritual).

George W., Knight of Eulogia

Website:

"There were other Bush Bonesmen, a proud line of them stretching from great uncle George Herbert Walker Jr. to uncle Jonathan Bush to cousins George Herbert Walker IIIand Ray Walker."

"name Long Devil is assigned to the tallest member; Boaz (short for Beelzebub) goes to any member who is a varsity football captain"

"name Magog is traditionally assigned to the incoming Bonesman deemed to have had the most sexual experience, and Gog goes to the new member with the least sexual experience"

"One doesn't need to scratch deeply to uncover accusations of sinister ties with the CIA, the Trilateral Commission, the Illuminati, even the Nazis."

"most pervasive rumors about Bones are that initiates must masturbate in a coffin while recounting their sexual exploits"

"society's mother organization in Germany"

"Dozens of skeletons and skulls, human and animal, dangle from the walls, on which German and Latin phrases have been chiseled ("Whether poor or rich, all are equal in death"), among moose heads, sconces, medieval armor, antlers, boating flags, manuscripts, statuettes of Demosthenes"

Skull and Bones: Inside the Secret Society - the Bizarre Rituals, Initiations and Secrets Revealed

 

[Clara Tea]

I remember reading in the Book of Genesis about the Egyptians (agricultural) not getting along with herdsmen, So Joseph tells Pharoah that they will settle in the Nile Delta area.


Deuteronomy 20:10-15

10 “When you approach a city to fight against it, you must make an offer of peace. 11 If it accepts your offer of peace and opens its gates to you, all the people found in it will become forced laborers for you and serve you. 12 However, if it does not make peace with you but wages war against you, lay siege to it. 13 When the Lord your God hands it over to you, you must strike down all its males with the sword. 14 But you may take the women, children, animals, and whatever else is in the city—all its spoil—as plunder. You may enjoy the spoil of your enemies that the Lord your God has given you. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are far away from you and are not among the cities of these nations.​

If the captured women are slaves, and their children are sons/daughters of slaves, who runs the show? The Patriarch! The sons of slaves may go raid a city one day, capture his own women, and become a patriarch himself.

Bible teaches "enslave or slay," yet "thou shalt not kill." Moses was instructed by God to turn around, after he escaped slavery in Egypt, and free the other slaves (which he did).

 

[Clara Tea]

carrying the women and children off to be sex slaves and other types of slaves.

Lyrics of modern songs...."Baby, baby, oh baby....Baby, baby, oh baby"....Why would anyone want to do that to a baby?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I remember reading in the Book of Genesis about the Egyptians (agricultural) not getting along with herdsmen, So Joseph tells Pharoah that they will settle in the Nile Delta area.

True, and also Abram leaves the cities. I get a pro-country vibe from the stories and laws. Possibly the cities are considered evil, and we have the example of Sodom which profits from kidnapping. Someone from Shechem kidnaps Jacob's daughter and rapes her. Abraham and his sons dig wells but never build a town. They consider tent living to be special, and at the end of the story of Noah we're told that ideally everyone lives on a farm, peacefully. There is a vision of peace and people living spread out instead of concentrated in cities. The cities, like kings, are treated as less than ideal, and the vibe is that they are less than ideal and breed violence and other problems.

If the captured women are slaves, and their children are sons/daughters of slaves, who runs the show? The Patriarch! The sons of slaves may go raid a city one day, capture his own women, and become a patriarch himself.

Here is where we run into problems, because we're shifting from talking about where patriarchy originates towards discussing whether it is enshrined in the bible books. Also it is difficult to support that it originates with herding and with migratory people, because most people say that migratory people and hunter gatherers tend towards matriarchy or something that isn't patriarchal. I don't know, but cities are places where people can be forgotten, where a face becomes generic. Maybe patriarchy is enshrined in scripture, but that is different from saying patriarchy starts with herding.

There is a snag, too, about the laws you mention. The laws you refer to about captured women are incorporated into the fabled history of the conquering of Canaan, which most archeologist deny ever happened. That to me is a flag suggesting this scripture is not what it seems and is closed to outsiders, casual readers like ourselves. The archeological discoveries raise the question "Why weren't the Canaanites slaughtered as indicated in these stories?" I don't know, but the Israelite scriptures generally describe waiting upon the LORD as a type of warfare, which outsiders tend to disbelieve though Jews are quite serious about it. There are two versions of the story, two reasons it might have been written. Were the men truly slaughtered and the women captured physically? I am on the fence; but I think that the men were either physically slaughtered or joined Israel. Its hard for me to be sure.

But...the situation remains that the scriptures literally say that captured women are to be treated thusly, so it talks about capturing women...which seems evidence of patriarchy. Not only that but we have the examples of life in Israel where women are somewhat like 2nd class citizens in the religious community, or so I am led to believe. This is not to me strong evidence that patriarchy starts with herding communities or that it is connected with herding, but I'm only putting in 2 cents and can't say for sure.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Lyrics of modern songs...."Baby, baby, oh baby....Baby, baby, oh baby"....Why would anyone want to do that to a baby?

Some men actually do feel towards a girl that she is like his baby. I have felt this way about a girl. These kinds of words are often cheapened in songs and by players, but they proceed from actual human feeling.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Many practice Satanic rituals. For example, President George H. W. Bush and his son, President W. Bush both were members of the Satanic cult Skull and Bones...which is a club that one joined in college, and whose membership continued into adulthood...

Hmmm weird. So weird that perhaps they didn't take it seriously. Lets hope not.