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Featured Satanist, Luciferian, or both?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Desert Snake, Jul 21, 2017.

?

Are you a satanist, a luciferian, or both?

Poll closed Aug 25, 2017.
  1. Satanist

    16.7%
  2. Luciferian

    33.3%
  3. Both satanist and luciferian

    50.0%
  1. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

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    Satanists can be totally different from Satanists.

    Therefore, I think the Satanist vs. Luciferian division is mostly one of personal preference, e.g. which aspects of the myths and which values one relates to more and considers therefore more fitting to which term.

    I normally identify more as a Satanist (or simply as a general LHPer), but, depending on which kind Luciferianism of we are talking about, I might share more values with that, e.g. striving for knowledge and self-development, which imo however are general LHP values.

    So I'll vote "both".
     
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  2. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Alright, a bit of symbolism to to show how I distinguish them: light in the darkness and darkness in the light: (in my view, of course:)
    Luci-Sat Taiji.png
     
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  3. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Lucifer is a pre-JudeoChristian Roman deity personifying the Morningstar of Phoenician/Canaan cosmology. He is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. And the first mention is from Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.E.

    Luciferianism is the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self.

    Satan is a personification of the Judaic word ha‑satan meaning Adversary. The Adversary is a trans‑cultural archetype which existed long before Christianity began in the form of Set, Samael, Ahriman, Loki, and the feminine aspect being Lilith, to name but a few. Psychologically speaking, the Adversary is our Shadow Self, that which opposes and challenges you, when confronted by it, one either becomes consumed by it or one becomes stronger because of it.

    In essence Satanists see the character of Satan as an archetype of pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, undefiled wisdom, and of a cosmos which Satanists perceive to be motivated by a dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things.
     
  4. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
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    A few thoughts, first, it might be more accurate to point to the Greek ones like Phosphorous. I'm not aware of any Roman equivalent and I've heard it say it goes as far back as the Phoenicians, Sumerians even but I've never seen any proof of that.

    I'm also not really a fan of saying x exists in all cultures and all of those are not the clearest analogs.

    The archetype descriptions are fairly accurate although I personally have some nuance and variety to that. As @Liu said we all very pretty wildly.
     
  5. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    I did say that Plato uses the name Lucifer in 360 BC. Plato is Greek last time I checked. I haven't found any earlier mention of Lucifer in Roman time.
     
    #25 EtuMalku, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  6. Ricktheheretic

    Ricktheheretic "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"

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    I see both as figures that derived from mythology.

    Satan was probably based on Set the counter-god of the ancient Egyptians, the brother of Osiris who killed him and became the god of the untamed desert and the underworld. Set is Apep who dwells in Amenti (the underworld) and tries to stop Horus' sun-ark each morn before it rises to the world above. Thus Set/Satan is Choronzon the devil who tempts adapts who journey through the Abyss and seek to be reborn as Masters of the Temple. Koronzon was the name given by Satan to John Dee and Edward Kelley in the 16th century. He is the snake coiled around Da'ath (Knowledge) the hidden Sephira on the Tree of Life, the guardian of occult wisdom and knowledge.

    Lucifer was based on a misreading of Jerome's Latin Vulgate in which "day star" in Isaiah 14:12 was translated as Luxiferre, a Roman name for the "morning star" or the planet Venus when it appeared at morn before the sun came up. Luxiferre, anglicized to Lucifer, means "light-bearer." Lucifer got mixed up with Prometheus who gave mankind fire from the gods and made men like the gods themselves. Zeus told Prometheus not to give mankind fire because then they would become powerful like the gods. The discovery of fire is what lead mankind out of the cave-dweller lifestyle and brought about the evolution from Neanderthal to Modern Homosapien. Thus Lucifer is the snake on the Tree of Knowledge that gives carnal man the knowledge to become god and control his own destiny. Lucifer is also fallen Sophia, the Gnostic goddess who fell into Chaos below the Pleroma and gave birth to the demiurge Yaldabaoth. After Yaldabaoth (Yahweh) made the first man and woman Sophia appeared as a snake on the Tree of Gnosis that mysteriously appeared in the garden. Sophia gave Adam and Eve the knowledge to transcend matter to the realm above and become like god. Sophia the fallen goddess is Venus (goddess of love) who rises every morn before dawn and leads mankind out of darkness to the realm above, Lucifer the "light-bearer." The Gnostic Mandaeans who exist to this day pray to the stars as divine beings. A symbol common to both Satanist/Luciferians and Gnostics is the Pentagram. To Satanists/Luciferians the Pentagram is Baphomet, with the horns on the two upper points and the letters LVTHN (another name for the demiurge or serpent of Chaos) at each point. The Gnostic Cathars revered the Pentagram. The Pentagram is also sign of Venus the "morning star" who appears in the east just before dawn and coincidentally the symbol of the Eastern Star in Freemasonry.

    I see both figures as existing metaphorically, but representing real concepts. Both bring transcendence from authoritarian/patriarchal religion. They are the serpent or snake in Tantra that climbs up the tree (spinal column) to awake Shiva in the brain.

    Thelema 101 at Thelema 101 Sinagogue of Satan The Gnosis Archive: Resources on Gnosticism and Gnostic Tradition Jungian archetypes - Wikipedia
     
  7. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

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    The dualistic concept of Satan as being opposed to God might have been influenced by that, but afaik it was more influenced by Zoroastrianism.

    Anglicized? Where did you get that one from. "lucifer" is already Latin, whereas "luxiferre" is bullsh*t xD

    So you consider them both to be different, overlapping myths for the same concept?
     
  8. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Are you a thelemite? A member of that group?
     
  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    The pentagram is a christian symbol, it isn't as common nowadays, though.
     
  10. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    The pentagram was devised by Pythagoras sometime in the 5th century AD, he had his own religion.
     
  11. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Morning Star symbolism is also found earlier than Greek and Roman thought. In Buddhism, the Morning Star is called "Healing Star" or "Medicine Star." Buddha became enlightened when he saw the Morning Star rise during the third watch of the night while meditating under the Bodhi Tree.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ricktheheretic

    Ricktheheretic "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"

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    A reply to some peoples posts.




    I see Satan and Lucifer as something like archetypes that are different ends of a polarity. Satan the negative, Lucifer the positive. Satan is the darkness caused by disillusionment with patriarchal religion, Lucifer is the light at the end of the tunnel. Lucifer is enlightenment from patriarchal religion, self-deification. I don't have a religion, but I favor Thelema and Gnosticism. I believe in something like a collective unconscious mind that all archetypes and myths emerge from. I feel like Satan, Lucifer, God, Zeus, Prometheus, Sophia, the Demiurge etc. are all archetypes or characters that play a role in the story of man's quest for self-realization and liberation from authoritarian patriarchal religion. For understanding things from an archetypal view I recommend some of the texts from the Gnostics, Karl Jung, Aleister Crowley, and Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma

    BTW I am agnostic and prefer to focus on how we solve problems for people here and now rather than questions about the supernatural. But I keep an open mind.
     
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  13. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Plato uses the term "ἑωσφόρος"
    Plato, Timaeus : Time - 2
     
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  14. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

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    BC you mean, and wasn't it already used much earlier in Egypt?
     
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  15. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Latin is difficult to trace before Varro, one of the earliest Latin authors. You have many different dialects and writing styles that we can't translate today, such as Etruscan. Although he wrote extensively on the Latin Language, Varro had difficulty with some of the historical stuff, such as this:
    Carmen Saliare - Wikipedia
     
  16. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Yes, BC my mistake. I haven't come across it earlier.
     
  17. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for being such a know-it-all, but Etruscan is not a dialect but a different language, not even Indo-European I think, and if I recall it correctly it is at least partly translatable due to the many loan words it left in Latin.
    But you're right, Old Latin is really difficult, no wonder that it normally doesn't get mentioned in Latin classes.
    Nevermind.
    I know I read somewhere that it was already used earlier in Egypt, but it was no scientific source. I only found something about Sumer: There seems to have been a cuneiform sign looking like a pentagram in early Sumerian (ca. 26th century BC): Pentagram - Wikipedia
    I can't confirm it, though, so who knows whether it's true. It also doesn't mention which version (point up or down).

    But it doesn't really matter anyway who used it in the past, what's important is what it means to us now.
     
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