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Satanist leads prayer at city council meeting

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yes and no. People who have little control or a percieved lack of control in their life makes it easier to find boogeymen to blame. It actually makes sense from their perspective, especially when you consider passages like 1 Peter 5:8 (the devil is like a roaring lion waiting to devour) and Ephesians 6:10-18 (donning the armor of god).
What doesn't make sense, at all, is how they believe they have free will but also believe god is in total control and knows the end result of everything.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Where do men need their wife's permission to get a vasectomy? Where do men have to clear needless hurdles to have his reproductive choices?
As I said, control comes in different flavors.
You failed to mention women being exempt
fro USA's military draft. Or that 95% of cop
killings are male.
Religion can indeed be bad for you.
But it can also be bad for others.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Scientology IS recognized!
Ok...let's give an example.
Let's pretend I am the Minister of Interior of my onw country.
A LHP association comes to me and wants to be recognized as religion.
And I will tell them "well, do show your statute to me. Your values, your aims, your purposes".

And they start telling me: " we worship Satan, we reject Christian values of love, we want to spread the values of hatred. "
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Ok...let's give an example.
Let's pretend I am the Minister of Interior of my onw country.
A LHP association comes to me and wants to be recognized as religion.
And I will tell them "well, do show your statute to me. Your values, your aims, your purposes".

And they start telling me: " we worship Satan, we reject Christian values of love, we want to spread the values of hatred, vengeance and retaliation. "

Will I recognize them as religion, in your opinion?
Yes, sure. In their dreams.
So? What you think and feel is entirely irrelevant. Harm is not a factor they look at when deciding to acknowledge a religion or not. It's not up to you and your feelings.
And where is this hatred, violence and retaliation coming from? I showed you the Satanic Temple's tenets and those aren't a part of them.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
So? What you think and feel is entirely irrelevant. Harm is not a factor they look at when deciding to acknowledge a religion or not. It's not up to you and your feelings.
And where is this hatred, violence and retaliation coming from? I showed you the Satanic Temple's tenets and those aren't a part of them.
Because your denomination is different than others. :)
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As a Christian, I will not watch the video.

As a humanist, I did watch it. It was very instructive - about American Christianity and Christian exceptionalism. Only their beliefs are holy, all else deserving rebuke and obstruction as we saw from the choir of evangelicals trying to shout the invocationist down. We see that pernicious opinion every day on these threads, whenever theists get angry at atheists rather than merely disagreeing with them. It implies a sense that the atheist is out of line for doing exactly what the theist is doing - explaining or promoting his world view.

My thoughts is that the US is a secular country founded upon Christian ethical pillars, since most Americans identify as Christians.

The United States was founded in the Enlightenment political philosophy of the likes of Locke and Montesquieu, which promote democracy, egalitarianism, limited, separated and transparent government, guaranteed personal freedoms including freedom of and from religion, and church-state separation (secularism). None of that is Christian in origin. What is Christian in origin is the recent Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe, a violation of church-state separation, which though an actual pillar of Americanism, is anathema to theocratically oriented Christians.

This is the never-ending struggle of humanists with revisionist evangelicals, who attempt to usurp all of the good humanism and Enlightenment values have brought the world for itself despite having fought those ideas tooth and nail (Christianity also wants to claim science for itself, and the abolition of American slavery, but that's another thread).

@Estro Felino is not ‘burying her head in the sand’! She simply has standards that she’s sticking to.

The two aren't incompatible if one's standard is sticking one's head in the sand when Satan is mentioned. Sticking one's head in the sand means to not look, which is what happened. It also happened in the video, where it manifested as trying to shout somebody down who they knew nothing about.

doesn’t everyone know Satan is the Archenemy of the God of the Bible?

Most people know that Christianity teaches that. But should that impede people calling themselves Satanists? Remember, most of what we see in the news called Satanist is coming from atheists and is political, not religious. They probably not only don't mind agitating the faithful, but they also probably enjoy triggering them.

She professes Christianity, which is based on the Bible. Do I really need to explain the level of antagonism existing between the 2 Points of View?

No, but are you aware that that antagonism originates with the Christian side? I like to look at the Freedom From Religion Foundation's "crankmail" from unhappy Christians writing in about the FFRF's various legal actions to contain Christianity to Christians. Here's the latest batch related to trying to get crosses removed from public land in a place called Elizabethton. These people have taken what is not theirs to take and are angry when legal remedies are deployed to undo that. Secular humanists familiar with constitutional law possibly encounter this level of privilege and hostility frequently. Why should they respect a religion that gives no respect to American principles? :
  • Has anyone from your organization ever been to Elizabethton to see these crosses? They have been ther for years and now suddenly they're a problem. Who do they hurt? If someone doesn't want to see them, they're on a hill high enough to where they don't have to look at them! Organizations like this really need to be illegal! Im not saying everyone has to believe in religion, but don't shove it down the throat of people who do! Leave Elizabethton alone! You have no meetings in the area, nor any local business in the area so what's your problem! And the picture you have online is not correct! Lynn mountain doesn't have a sign on it so quit falsely showing people things so they are on your side! Get a life and a grip on reality! — Carol
  • Why would you as an organization run around removing signs of faith from our society? I personally hope that horrible horrible things happen to your organization, your employees, and their families. Sad part? I'm one of the least religious people you could meet: I just really dislike zealots of any flavor. An organization that reaches across the country with its narrowminded views to force them on others to "help".. your organization is like a missionary force for the church of moral modern douchbaggery. Again, I just hope that karma plays out an actual plague or meteorites for you and your fellow zealots. — John
  • Keep your noses out of Elizabethton how about that you morons! — Pat
  • Praise God! We will all be judged accordingly you wicked people! Praise Jesus Christ! Hallelujah these people found the Lord and you want to stop it at all costs? If you don't repent of your sins and trust in Jesus Christ you will go to hell! — Hank
And this timeless classic. What's not to love about these people and their religion?
  • Atheism is evil. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. You are monsters. — John
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That was the decision of men, not a decision of women controlling men.
The one being oppressed isn't so pleased
just because the oppressor shares a gender.
But you also forget that women vote for
those leaders who impose abuse upon men.
And women losing abortion rights is another
problem that lays at the feet of women in power,
not just men.

Such is the problem of group politics that assigns
nobility, victimhood, & blame so thoughtlessly upon
entire groups. It ignores individual variation, & the
intersection of groups.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
As a humanist, I did watch it. It was very instructive - about American Christianity and Christian exceptionalism. Only their beliefs are holy, all else deserving rebuke and obstruction as we saw from the choir of evangelicals trying to shout the invocationist down. We see that pernicious opinion every day on these threads, whenever theists get angry at atheists rather than merely disagreeing with them. It implies a sense that the atheist is out of line for doing exactly what the theist is doing - explaining or promoting his world view.



The United States was founded in the Enlightenment political philosophy of the likes of Locke and Montesquieu, which promote democracy, egalitarianism, limited, separated and transparent government, guaranteed personal freedoms including freedom of and from religion, and church-state separation (secularism). None of that is Christian in origin. What is Christian in origin is the recent Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe, a violation of church-state separation, which though an actual pillar of Americanism, is anathema to theocratically oriented Christians.

This is the never-ending struggle of humanists with revisionist evangelicals, who attempt to usurp all of the good humanism and Enlightenment values have brought the world for itself despite having fought those ideas tooth and nail (Christianity also wants to claim science for itself, and the abolition of American slavery, but that's another thread).



The two aren't incompatible if one's standard is sticking one's head in the sand when Satan is mentioned. Sticking one's head in the sand means to not look, which is what happened. It also happened in the video, where it manifested as trying to shout somebody down who they knew nothing about.



Most people know that Christianity teaches that. But should that impede people calling themselves Satanists? Remember, most of what we see in the news called Satanist is coming from atheists and is political, not religious. They probably not only don't mind agitating the faithful, but they also probably enjoy triggering them.



No, but are you aware that that antagonism originates with the Christian side? I like to look at the Freedom From Religion Foundation's "crankmail" from unhappy Christians writing in about the FFRF's various legal actions to contain Christianity to Christians. Here's the latest batch related to trying to get crosses removed from public land in a place called Elizabethton. These people have taken what is not theirs to take and are angry when legal remedies are deployed to undo that. Secular humanists familiar with constitutional law possibly encounter this level of privilege and hostility frequently. Why should they respect a religion that gives no respect to American principles? :
  • Has anyone from your organization ever been to Elizabethton to see these crosses? They have been ther for years and now suddenly they're a problem. Who do they hurt? If someone doesn't want to see them, they're on a hill high enough to where they don't have to look at them! Organizations like this really need to be illegal! Im not saying everyone has to believe in religion, but don't shove it down the throat of people who do! Leave Elizabethton alone! You have no meetings in the area, nor any local business in the area so what's your problem! And the picture you have online is not correct! Lynn mountain doesn't have a sign on it so quit falsely showing people things so they are on your side! Get a life and a grip on reality! — Carol
  • Why would you as an organization run around removing signs of faith from our society? I personally hope that horrible horrible things happen to your organization, your employees, and their families. Sad part? I'm one of the least religious people you could meet: I just really dislike zealots of any flavor. An organization that reaches across the country with its narrowminded views to force them on others to "help".. your organization is like a missionary force for the church of moral modern douchbaggery. Again, I just hope that karma plays out an actual plague or meteorites for you and your fellow zealots. — John
  • Keep your noses out of Elizabethton how about that you morons! — Pat
  • Praise God! We will all be judged accordingly you wicked people! Praise Jesus Christ! Hallelujah these people found the Lord and you want to stop it at all costs? If you don't repent of your sins and trust in Jesus Christ you will go to hell! — Hank
And this timeless classic. What's not to love about these people and their religion?
  • Atheism is evil. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. You are monsters. — John
What is wrong with these people believing in their religion and being passionate about it?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You do have to watch it if you don't want to look like a holier than thou fool who is just fine and dandy speaking on grounds of pure ignorance and would rather do that than be informed and making statements based in facts and not fantasy.
That's not a good thing.
No... I think that would be classified as a judgment call. I don't want to see a XXX movie, not because I am holier than thou, but rather not interested in content.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Those tenets are absolutely pathetic.
You seriously think those tenets are "pathetic?" How and why? Do tell.

  • I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
  • II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
  • III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
  • IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
  • V Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
  • VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
  • VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.


Sounds pretty good to me. I wish more people would care more deeply about such things.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
That's fine if someone doesn't want to see it, but it's not fine to spam the thread with unfounded presumptions and defiant, willful ignorance. What purpose does it serve?

I didn't read your post because I think it will lead me to hell. Why can't you just tell us why you reacted to the poster the way you did?!
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
No... I think that would be classified as a judgment call. I don't want to see a XXX movie, not because I am holier than thou, but rather not interested in content.
First off, it's not like any sort of movie. It's an actual, real historic event and current event in many areas.
Second, it's condemning and criticizing something you are ignorant of. That, in my mind, just is not justifiable or anything good.
What it is, is Christians who think they are too good to learn and too intellectually lazy to even pretend to try. Christians building their own walls to separate and divide. Christians who act absolutely nothing like their Christ.
 
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