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"Satanic abortions" purportedly protected by Religious Freedoms Restoration Act.

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by Father Heathen, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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  2. Left Coast

    Left Coast Happy New Year!
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  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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  4. Gargovic Malkav

    Gargovic Malkav Active Member

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    When I read the title of this thread I just knew it had something to do with The Satanic Temple. They do things like this all the time. The way they do things reminds me of Pastafarianism(Pastafari's want to be taken seriously for wearing colanders on their heads in public places); A "religion" that seems to be more about commentary on the law than it's an actual faith, like Revoltingest said.
     
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  5. EsonauticSage

    EsonauticSage Between extremes

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  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, it might not be that simple. If I recall correct, according to the courts, you are religious if you claim your belief is religious. I.e. as per this link religion | Definition, Types, & List of Religions a religious belief doesn't have be the standard theist one.

    Secondly, if you can use religion in regards to your stance on abortions as the courts have already accepted, then you might ask, how come you can't in this case use religion. The general rule for claiming religion is that you can't use religion to claim an exception to a general law; e.g I can't claim it is okay for me to kill another human because I believe it is okay based on my religion.
    But the USSC have found that abortion is not illegal as such, so in a sense I can claim that I have an individual right based on the law to choose an abortion and for me it is a religious act to get an abortion.

    In other words, if it is legal to get an abortion, then by restricting my access to abortion it is a violation of the 1st amendment. Now of course, weighing that against the idea that the public has right to restrict abortion based on reasons, which might be constitutional or not, is as you point out another matter. Judges are humans after all, but as far as I can tell, it holds at the core. An abortion is a religious act if you believe it to be so.
     
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  7. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    They're a counterweight to the Christian "taliban" by asserting rights whether or not they stand up. It's a goose/gander reminder as @Left Coast pointed out.
     
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  8. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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  9. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Man, the US is a weird thing. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. EsonauticSage

    EsonauticSage Between extremes

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    You ain't wrong, lol
     
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  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    That is my point.
    Of course.
    Under the law, even atheism is a religion.
    (But not collecting stamps is not a hobby...legally.)
    If state law restricting abortion is upheld, then this would mean the
    state treats abortion in somewhat the same manner as assault, ie,
    the practice is so wrong that it wouldn't justify religious exemption.

    From the linked article.....
    "The law is clearly on our side. If RFRA states do not want to recognize our rights,
    they will ultimately have to claim that our abortions are not satanic," Essex said.
    "Given that many people fanatically insist that all abortions are satanic, the states’
    argument will be very unpopular. Not only will those who deny Satanists their
    religious freedom be denounced by defenders of liberty, but they will also be detested
    by those who demonize abortion. Hopefully, states will do the right thing and respect
    our legal rights."

    The above argument seems very tongue in cheek. The claim that
    "abortions are satanic" is unattributed, dubious, & not written in law.

    I'm pro-abortion (not merely "pro-choice"), so I sympathise with them.
    But being on their side doesn't blind me to their specious argument.
     
    #11 Revoltingest, Aug 6, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  12. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    ☿ Mercuræn Mahayana Buddhist & Pastafarian
    They both appear to fill in the niche of the Sacred Clown traditions. (speaking Truth to Power)
     
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  13. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No, it is not just that. Being satanic is religious, so in effect it holds. So them an abortion is a religious, satanic act. It is dead serious, a majority can't deny a minority a right under the Constitution and to them an abortion is a satanic act and belief, and religious.

    Do you have a bias against Satanists? ;)
     
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Do you believe that there are no limits to religious practices?
    Virgin sacrifices, polygamy, anti-vaxer, housing discrimination?
    I even wrote a pro Satan poem for a poster here.

    There once was a fellow, Titanic.
    His underwear smelled most Satanic.
    He gave the excuse
    for odor profuse...
    "At least it's completely organic!"
     
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  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No. there are limits. But as long as Roe vs Wade holds, there is no hard limit on abortion and thus an abortion can be performed as a religious act, including a satanic one.
     
  16. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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  17. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Not only that. They are making a deal with Satan and they got your soul for an unborn sold. /s
     
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  18. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    I know, and I love them for it. :D
     
  19. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    It's what they do. For those who are unaware, they routinely stand up for religious freedom for us all by casting a very bright spotlight on how some religions get privileged over others. Here's a good article written by a scholar on their group as well as an example of some of their blessed work:

    "One of the group’s political goals is to advocate for the value of the separation of church and state. Their strategy is to remind the public that if Christians can use government resources to assert their cultural dominance, then Satanists are free to do the same.

    After Oklahoma installed a monument of the Ten Commandments at its State Capitol in 2012, the group demanded that their statue of a satanic deity, Baphomet, a winged-goat-like creature, be installed next to it.

    The group received US$30,000 in donations from people around the country to build the statue.

    The Oklahoma Supreme Court ordered the Ten Commandments monument removed."
    From - What The Satanic Temple is and why it's opening a debate about religion
     
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  20. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Here's a trailer for a documentary about them:

     
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