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Satan was NOT the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

Antisthenes

New Member
Actually the Jewish literature is an amalgame of many ancient religions, cults and philosophies. Even their deities were copied from other civilizations and we find ancient legends and myths incorporated into their Torah!
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Many think that the devil was the serpent in the Garden of Eden who seduced Eve to eat the fruit of the tree from which God had forbidden. This assertion, which is widespread, is false.
The serpent in the Garden of Eden was literally a serpent and not an angel. This becomes clear when one looks at the whole context.
The serpent is described in Genesis 3:1 as "the craftiest beast in the field" and not as an angel.
In Genesis 3:14, God curses the serpent because it deceived Eve, for he said, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life."
God said, "Cursed be the serpent among all the beasts of the field," and not among all the angels.
And God said, "You shall Crawl on your belly, and eat dust all the days of your life". Does the devil crawl on his belly today and eat dust? Of course not. But the serpents that we know and see today do that. This and the other statements describe clearly and literally a snake and no angel.
And yes I know that the devil is described in the New Testament as a snake in 2 passages, but this is only to be understood symbolically. The "serpent" symbolizes the cunning, because the devil is cunning in what he does he is therefore called a snake.
Jesus also describes the Pharisees as "serpents" for their treacherous nature. (Matthew 23:33)

Now the question is whether animals really spoke, and as unbelievable as it sounds, the animals really pronounced words like humans. From the day the animals were created and from the day Adam and Eve were created, everyone could talk to each other until the day Eve ate from the tree of fruit from which God had forbidden, because from then on God silenced the animals so that they could no longer speak.
And the language the animals and Adam and Eve spoke to each other is the ancient original Hebrew. This language is the language of God, it was spoken from the animals until the sin of Eve, spoken by man until the destruction of the tower of Babel (through Abraham the Original Hebrew came back into the world because he was taught by the angels) and is still spoken in heaven by God and the angels today and for all eternity.

All information comes from the book "Lesser Genesis" and from the book "Genesis".

I'm attempting to find a way to approach this as an atheist, but I'm finding it difficult, so ... I'll approach it as someone with scriptural knowledge and understanding. Serpent = crafty or wise. I mean he /it was said to have the power to impart wisdom through a fruit of sorts right? Then you speak about Eve's deception as if the serpent was wrong or something. From what I garner from Genesis, Adam was addressed with the thou shalt not eat and Eve was told by Adam, and Adam knew but Eve didn't thus Eve was deceived but Adam wasn't right? What if Adam knew something and ... maybe that what he told wasn't true or something, and maybe Eve was deceived in that she felt ashamed for desiring to understand a few things and attain wisdom, which in proverbs is said to be a tree of life. So, while some demonize the serpent, or devil, or satan or whatever you want to call it/him/her I'll suggest it was a had to be and Adam and Eve understood it wrongly because they ended up ashamed, so ashamed they hid themselves. God apparently already declared all that was ever made very good, which means exceedingly good, so why does the serpent get the bad wrap and not Adam and Eve and all who came after and the paradigms they adopted since?
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Also, life can be extremely difficult as is and when we adopt views and mindsets and hide from true and real and feel ashamed of who we are and how we're made and what we like to do and find pleasure in and then do the opposite of what we like in attempt to please a mindset that doesn't make much sense aside from it being a prominent part of our culture things get confused and twisted up and communication hindered and truth hindered and then hypocrisy rears its head so on so forth ... You get the picture I would think after years upon years of denying how were made and instead of listening to our bodies and intellect ... like I know that when I'm hungry, I should probably eat. We're made how we're made for a reason ... why deny that truth and adopt a mindset that keeps us from enjoying an exceedingly good life?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Respectfully, Wouldn't Adam be the ideal choice? Total blind-side :)
Yes, and Eve was deceived, but Adam apparently did Not want to live without Eve.
So, I suppose one could say that Adam committed a form of suicide.
Adam's sin was deliberate and Not by accident.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Why? Jesus said we are to love our enemies. Why does Jesus get out of his own judgment?
God couldn't run Israel except into the ground. He doesn't get to lecture us about how to govern.
What does the ending of Mark have to do with what other cultures believe?
Because the actual story doesn't mention him?
The serpent knew God was lying about the real reason A&E couldn't eat the fruit. God implied it was poisonous or something because He said it'd kill them the day they ate it. But it wasn't. God just didn't want them to eat magic god power-granting fruit...............................
It's also irrational to believe A&E had much of a language fresh out the gate.

I had a a high school English teacher that taught that Hebrew was the most comprehensive language.
Thus, Adam and Eve would have had that language fresh both inside and outside of the Edenic gate.
Yes, Adam and Eve did die in the 'thousand-year day'. Adam living to be 930 years old.
Thus, the oldest person in Scripture died before reaching age 1,000.
The forbidden fruit stood for Sovereignty.
Right, God did Not lecture us about how to govern. No one is forced to be theocratic in their thinking.
By Adam choosing to break God's Law thus Adam took the Law (Sovereignty) out of God's hands.
Adam placed sovereignty into man's hands.
Adam set up 'people rule' as superior to 'God Rule'
Mankind's history proves that 'man rule' can't establish Peace on Earth.
Pick up the morning news and read about the bad news of men's kingdoms ( governments )
Pick up the Bible and read about the good news of God's Kingdom of Daniel 2:44.
Jesus, as King of God's Kingdom, is the one who will establish global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

The God of Jesus has decreed that enemy Satan is worthy of death ( bite the dust ) - Hebrews 2:14 B
ALL who will Not repent will perish - 2 Peter 3:9
ALL the wicked will be brought to ruin and destroyed forever - Revelation 11:18 B; Psalms 92:7
Otherwise, the wicked would destroy the righteous, the humble meek who will inherit the Earth.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
1. serpents don't eat dust
2. even if one considers the serpent to just being a serpent, you're still left with a story featuring talking serpents. I don't think it's credibility is improved by saying that this serpent wasn't controlled (or whatever) by the devil.

1) Right serpents don't eat dust. If they did they would die.
I find in Bible speak, so to speak, ' eat dust ' means that Satan will ' bite the dust ' ( be destroyed Hebrews 2:14 B )

2) That literal serpent animal in Genesis did Not necessarily have to speak.
Rather, Satan could have used that animal just as a ventriloquist uses his dummy.
That Serpent ( Satan being that real 'snake in the grass' ) could have appeared to speak to Eve.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
1) Right serpents don't eat dust. If they did they would die.
I find in Bible speak, so to speak, ' eat dust ' means that Satan will ' bite the dust ' ( be destroyed Hebrews 2:14 B )

2) That literal serpent animal in Genesis did Not necessarily have to speak.
Rather, Satan could have used that animal just as a ventriloquist uses his dummy.
That Serpent ( Satan being that real 'snake in the grass' ) could have appeared to speak to Eve.

Well, off course, if you are going to make stuff up to make it slightly less crazy....
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
1) Right serpents don't eat dust. If they did they would die.
I find in Bible speak, so to speak, ' eat dust ' means that Satan will ' bite the dust ' ( be destroyed Hebrews 2:14 B )

2) That literal serpent animal in Genesis did Not necessarily have to speak.
Rather, Satan could have used that animal just as a ventriloquist uses his dummy.
That Serpent ( Satan being that real 'snake in the grass' ) could have appeared to speak to Eve.

Another one bites the dust ... Great song! I want that played at my funeral one day or at least at one time I did. Dust ... that's where we come from right? At least biblically speaking. Hell, we're all products of this big dust bowl we call the earth. We breath it in and out, particles airborn ... I mean we don't have the cleanest air in the world. Wait ... could we be our own worse enemy? That's what Satan means right? Isn't that the definition of Satan? Would that make us like the serpent, our own worse enemy and tempters? Seriously, I mean we're like a serpent sometimes or maybe all the time. Serpents are a thing to be desired in the bible too. Wise as serpents gentle as doves passage ... I can't remember where exactly. but it's in the New testament. Again, all was exceedingly good ... I guess the problem and solution rests squarely on us ... for a better life. Everyone ... The question is how? My how or rather suggestion would be for every individual to live their lives and be happy, help if/when able, and try not to abuse the kindness of others.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I don't believe animals ever spoke. haven't seen anything in the Bible to support that view. Also we are beasts of the field as well.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Also if you bother to read the Bible you will see that Revelation 12:9 says that Satan is "that old serpent".

I believe this may be associated. Hel is of the serpent race that has been at war with humans for ages. You can tell it is more than one person because he has angels which is plural.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
I don't believe animals ever spoke. haven't seen anything in the Bible to support that view. Also we are beasts of the field as well.

Living creatures we are ... But snakes and donkey's can speak ... whether through body language or force or simple I go here so you look language.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Living creatures we are ... But snakes and donkey's can speak ... whether through body language or force or simple I go here so you look language.
Satan could have easily used that Serpent as a ventriloquist uses his dummy.
To Eve that Serpent could have appeared to be talking to her.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Satan could have easily used that Serpent as a ventriloquist uses his dummy.
To Eve that Serpent could have appeared to be talking to her.

I guess ... I thought I once saw a horse say "When you believe" but that could just be me. Tell me if you see it too

 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Another one bites the dust ... Great song! I want that played at my funeral one day or at least at one time I did. Dust ... that's where we come from right? At least biblically speaking. Hell, we're all products of this big dust bowl we call the earth. We breath it in and out, particles airborn ... I mean we don't have the cleanest air in the world. Wait ... could we be our own worse enemy? That's what Satan means right? Isn't that the definition of Satan? Would that make us like the serpent, our own worse enemy and tempters? Seriously, I mean we're like a serpent sometimes or maybe all the time. Serpents are a thing to be desired in the bible too. Wise as serpents gentle as doves passage ... I can't remember where exactly. but it's in the New testament. Again, all was exceedingly good ... I guess the problem and solution rests squarely on us ... for a better life. Everyone ... The question is how? My how or rather suggestion would be for every individual to live their lives and be happy, help if/when able, and try not to abuse the kindness of others.
Yes, we are to be cautious as serpents and innocent as doves as per Matthew 10:16. - Philippians 2:14-15

Seems to me that Adam may have seemed that the 'problem and solution ' rests squarely on mankind.
By breaking God's Law then Adam in effect set up People Rule as superior to God Rule.
Thus, the passing of time would show who can govern best.
Mankind's long history has proven that man can't successfully govern himself.
Man has been unable to establish a paradisical Peace on Earth.
So, the ' solution ' now rests squarely on God to provide divine involvement into mankind's affairs.
God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth as per Revelation 11:18 B.
This will come about with Jesus, as Prince of Peace, to establish global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
Executional words from Jesus' mouth will destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-16; Psalm 92:7
In the meantime, we are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has - John 13:34-35
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Yes, we are to be cautious as serpents and innocent as doves as per Matthew 10:16. - Philippians 2:14-15

Seems to me that Adam may have seemed that the 'problem and solution ' rests squarely on mankind.
By breaking God's Law then Adam in effect set up People Rule as superior to God Rule.
Thus, the passing of time would show who can govern best.
Mankind's long history has proven that man can't successfully govern himself.
Man has been unable to establish a paradisical Peace on Earth.
So, the ' solution ' now rests squarely on God to provide divine involvement into mankind's affairs.
God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth as per Revelation 11:18 B.
This will come about with Jesus, as Prince of Peace, to establish global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
Executional words from Jesus' mouth will destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-16; Psalm 92:7
In the meantime, we are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has - John 13:34-35


All that could have a thing to do with lack of understanding, lack of know how, lack of cooperation, lack of empathy, sympathy, and insistent need or lust for violence and to exert power and/or control over others.

But yeah, leave it up to God ... I'll agree in part. I choose to work hard, play harder, when I get my freak on I'll do it like a mean it, have fun, enjoy what i got today (may not be here tomorrow) and do what I can for others when I can without destroying my own well-being. It comes down to I know myself well enough to know and understand what I enjoy and what I don't, what's beneficial ... short or long term, and how to attain when I'm ready to attain. I'm an individual, so I can only speak for me. If I'm wrong ... so what? I enjoy my life best I'm able, help others when able, work hard the only way I really know how, and play even harder. God will sort us all out in the end, so ... I worry less, exercise a bit more faith than i once did, and live out loud or at least louder than before.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I guess ... I thought I once saw a horse say "When you believe" but that could just be me. Tell me if you see it too...................

I didn't necessarily see the horse say 'when you believe' but the Lion reminded me of Isaiah 11:6-9, and Isaiah 65:25.
The video seemed to make it appear the horse saying 'when you believe'.
Whereas the young people with the Lion kind of showing fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
Any thoughts about Isaiah 25:6-9________________
 
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