Satan Prepping

[InChrist]

So it's basically "the devil made me do it", no personal responsibility, no will to do right or strength to avoid wrong? So if I have a drinking and/or gambling problem (I don't... I don't even buy lottery tickets, and my 6 pack of beer has dust on it) is the devil coercing or influencing me? Is my sexuality the devil's influence? I think of this as not so different than "I'm this way because Mommy and Daddy didn't love me enough, it's their fault". I'm not one for claiming to be under any outside influence, pointing fingers or blaming someone or something else. I accept full responsibility for my mistakes, stupidity, and failings. Maybe I don't believe in the devil because I don't give him any power, nor is there anything to be saved from.

No, it’s not basically “the devil made me do it”. I believe God gave each person free will/choice, so basically it will be personal responsibility concerning what one did with that gift of freewill when standing at the Judgement.
I know you have your own beliefs, so I’m not here to convince you of the devil’s existence, the need of a Savior, or argue in circles.
Just expressing my perspective.

 

[InChrist]

No, the Bible claims that it occurred. Let's not jump to unjustified conclusions. The destruction of the temple, the attack on Jerusalem, were not the end times and Jesus did not come back then. I know you want it to be the transfiguration, but it wasn't. Which of the disciples that he was talking to died before ththat event?

No, the Bible does not claim all the events have occurred. You are right, the attack on Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple were not end time events. As I already stated Jesus never said all the events and/or signs He mentioned were going to happen simultaneously or that all would occur in the lifetime of the disciples before they died. Again, He did say some would see Him in His kingdom glory and three, Peter, James and John DID.
You are superimposing your own thoughts and timeframe on the narrative by attempting to make it say everything was to be fulfilled immediately and all at once.

Just a few end times events He mentioned which were to happen after the disciple’s lifetimes and are yet to occur:


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:21-22

( see Revelation for further details )

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, the Bible does not claim all the events have occurred. You are right, the attack on Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple were not end time events. As I already stated Jesus never said all the events and/or signs He mentioned were going to happen simultaneously or that all would occur in the lifetime of the disciples before they died. Again, He did say some would see Him in His kingdom glory and three, Peter, James and John DID.
You are superimposing your own thoughts and timeframe on the narrative by attempting to make it say everything was to be fulfilled immediately and all at once.

Just a few end times events He mentioned which were to happen after the disciple’s lifetimes and are yet to occur:


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:21-22

( see Revelation for further details )

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

You keep ignoring that even in Mark he implies very strongly that some of them would die before his prophecy came true. Once again:

"9 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”"

How many of them died in that short time?

 

[InChrist]

You keep ignoring that even in Mark he implies very strongly that some of them would die before his prophecy came true. Once again:

"9 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”"

How many of them died in that short time?

None of them died, so what is your point?
Back in post #49 you were insinuating that none of the disciples were still alive to have seen Jesus come in His kingdom power and glory. I pointed out to you that the scriptures show that’s not the case, as six days later Peter, James, and John did see Jesus in His Kingdom power and glory on the mountain at the Transfiguration event. So no conflict with the scriptures.
Now you’re saying they should all have died in the short time before the Transfiguration. The fact is that all the disciples have died before the coming of Christ at the end of the age, but three were given the opportunity to see Christ in His kingdom glory before their death. It’s not that complicated to comprehend and again there’s no conflict with the scriptures.

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of them died, so what is your point?
Back in post #49 you were insinuating that none of the disciples were still alive to have seen Jesus come in His kingdom power and glory. I pointed out to you that the scriptures show that’s not the case, as six days later Peter, James, and John did see Jesus in His Kingdom power and glory on the mountain at the Transfiguration event. So no conflict with the scriptures.
Now you’re saying they should all have died in the short time before the Transfiguration. The fact is that all the disciples have died before the coming of Christ at the end of the age, but three were given the opportunity to see Christ in His kingdom glory before their death. It’s not that complicated to comprehend and again there’s no conflict with the scriptures.

Jesus implied that some would. Did he know that little?

 

[InChrist]

Jesus implied that some would. Did he know that little?

He didn’t imply anything other than what He said, “…some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power”. Which is exactly what happened; they all died before His final coming at the end of the age to establish the kingdom on earth, with the dramatic signs. Nevertheless, three of the disciples were given a glimpse and did see Jesus in His kingdom power and glory before their death. Remember what I said earlier; the kingdom of God is eternal, always present outside of humanity’s timeframe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He didn’t imply anything other than what He said, “…some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power”. Which is exactly what happened; they all died before His final coming at the end of the age to establish the kingdom on earth, with the dramatic signs. Nevertheless, three of the disciples were given a glimpse and did see Jesus in His kingdom power and glory before their death. Remember what I said earlier; the kingdom of God is eternal, always present outside of humanity’s timeframe.

Please, it was just a few days away. Are you saying that Jesus has prophetic powers, but they are extremely weak and unreliable ones?

 

[InChrist]

Please, it was just a few days away. Are you saying that Jesus has prophetic powers, but they are extremely weak and unreliable ones?

No, I’m not saying that and I don’t even understand what you mean by the prophetic powers of Jesus being weak or unreliable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, I’m not saying that and I don’t even understand what you mean by the prophetic powers of Jesus being weak or unreliable.

Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

You are not being consistent in your reasoning.

 

[InChrist]

Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

You are not being consistent in your reasoning.

Maybe striking you not me. It’s your reasoning and responses which waver and lack consistency. I’ve been repeatedly saying the same thing to you throughout our conversation. I have no cognitive dissonance issues when reading the Matthew 24 passage and the other Gospel passages referencing the end time events, which make perfect sense, especially in light of other related passages of the Bible. I do realize that as an atheist your mindset is limited to only the material so that you really can’t fully comprehend the scriptures and likely don’t want to anyway. I assume you don’t actually believe the Transfiguration is a real event, do you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Maybe striking you not me. It’s your reasoning and responses which waver and lack consistency. I’ve been repeatedly saying the same thing to you throughout our conversation. I have no cognitive dissonance issues when reading the Matthew 24 passage and the other Gospel passages referencing the end time events, which make perfect sense, especially in light of other related passages of the Bible. I do realize that as an atheist your mindset is limited to only the material so that you really can’t fully comprehend the scriptures and likely don’t want to anyway. I assume you don’t actually believe the Transfiguration is a real event, do you?

And you have been consistently wrong. You can't handle the context.


You have a serious case of cognitive dissonance since serious Christians do recognize this as a major problem of the Bible.

And it does not matter if I believe the myths of the Bible or not. So why did you even ask that question? Though my lack of belief does give me one clear advantage. When the Bible contradicts itself I can see it. You can't afford to see those contradictions.

 

[Heyo]

Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

You are not being consistent in your reasoning.

It's only cognitive dissonance if holding conflicting believes makes the person uncomfortable. I think @InChrist isn't even aware of the conflict.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's only cognitive dissonance if holding conflicting believes makes the person uncomfortable. I think @InChrist isn't even aware of the conflict.

That is almost unbelievable. But he may be that blind.

 

[Heyo]

That is almost unbelievable. But he may be that blind.

She identifies as female.
Ever tried to argue with a delusional conspiracy theorist? They have excuses for every "seeming" inconsistency. When your first axiom is "I am always right", no inconsistency can cause cognitive dissonance. Because, because of axiom #1, you are wrong in pointing out that there is an inconsistency. Qed.
I'm not saying that fits @InChrist, I'm saying that we don't know and it is therefore wrong to diagnose her with cognitive dissonance. That gets thrown around too often when we mean hypocritical or illogical that I fear it will lose it's meaning.

 

[Subduction Zone]

She identifies as female.
Ever tried to argue with a delusional conspiracy theorist? They have excuses for every "seeming" inconsistency. When your first axiom is "I am always right", no inconsistency can cause cognitive dissonance. Because, because of axiom #1, you are wrong in pointing out that there is an inconsistency. Qed.
I'm not saying that fits @InChrist, I'm saying that we don't know and it is therefore wrong to diagnose her with cognitive dissonance. That gets thrown around too often when we mean hypocritical or illogical that I fear it will lose it's meaning.

Ah, thanks for the correction. I should have checked instead of assuming. But then I have had to do the same for others here.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There's no proof Satan exists. That evil exists in the world, and that humans do evil is no proof of his existence. Nor is it proof of "sin" in the world caused by his (nonexistent) influence. Evil exists because it is the absence of good, just as dark is the absence of light. Hitler and the Nazis, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Pinochet, and others committed the atrocities they did because there was nothing at the time to counter them. Then there was, and the evil was gone. "All that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". It's not, as Flip Wilson used to say "The Devil made me do it". Christians have a completely unhealthy obsession with Satan and demons. No other religion has such an obsession. And while the picture I posted is a joke (but the guy is kind of sexy and hot .. no pun intended), I'm certainly not going to turn evil because I see a sexy (and hot don't forget hot ... no pun intended ) image of Satan.

I think the Abrahamic religious traditions have mostly lost sight of the relative nature of the good and evil duality that their scripture teaches.

Isaiah 45: 6 Thy Lord God is one, there is no other, 7 I form the light, and I create the darkness, I make the good and I create the evil, I the Lord do these things.

Fwiw, without duality, there can be no creation, no existence.as perceived by the human mind.

 

[wellwisher]

You keep ignoring that even in Mark he implies very strongly that some of them would die before his prophecy came true. Once again:

"9 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”"

How many of them died in that short time?

This quote is a type of hint. John, also called Mark, would see the coming of the Kingdom of God in his visions at the Island of Patmos. John was exiled to the Island of Patmos and would write about his visions in Revelations. He lived to an old age and died in prison. He was the only one spared by the Romans.

I am of the belief, based on my own experiences, that prophesy is less of a global human event; drama that occurs outside us, but more like an update into a new operating system of the human brain that occurs in individuals. Like a dream, Revelation skips around with hyperlinks. It is designed to trigger the unconscious.

Like in modern computers, before any new operating system is installed, there is an uninstall process that will be destructive to the old way; the old operating system has to be removed before there can be a clean install. Your settings are saved; what is personal to you survives. The Anti-Christ and False Prophet are connected to the uninstall process. They are destructive of the old; changes in times and law.

People from each generation, who become obsessed with the end times, through an internal drive or through collective external triggers, often are fueled with inner projections of the end times. They have started the uninstall process. But not all will get a clean uninstall; perseverance of the Saints, to allow the clean install process to happen.

In my experience, with prophesies, my previous work with the Unconscious mind and knowledge of collective human symbolism allowed me to figure out a hint in Revelation, as to how to approach prophesy. One was not to add to take away anything. One way to do that was to highlight all prophesy quotes, from the both Old and New Testament, I then printed them and then cut them all into quote size pieces, like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. I then assembled all the prophesy quotes; pieces, without any words of my own. I used the Four Horsemen as the core. Each was like an act in play. The rest attached.

The completed puzzle, painted a sequential picture of the four acts, that triggered the uninstall process in me. I became very animated and stressed in the beginning of the uninstall process, with self righteous indignation; ends justifies the means. I felt so much the pressure trying to get everyone prepared, while being fought every step of the way; activated a mystical psychosis. I had already trained for this, but I loss track of my training, and merged with it.

My dark prophet approach, in the name of good, was fine for the beginning of the uninstall process, and was an ego boost, since I was destroying the old ways in my visions. But one day, my life changed I had to turn on a dime, and become my own alter ego; shoe on the other foot. I got to meet Satan and had a nervous breakdown. That sort of short circuited my brain. I had to allow what would happen, to happen; strength perfected in weakness. It was the worse of times, but I got through it over several months.

The seven plagues, was the end of the uninstall process. This was connected to atonement for my entire past; relative morality, with the last plague; great earthquake, where mountains collapse and islands are not found, leading to a reorganization of my personal memory; good separates from evil; gather the armies, and then a large memory dump, leading to amnesia.

I had amnesia in terms of my life memory, but I was still me; my persona settings were saved. I was reborn. My ego was like that of a child and I had to grow up again, living in paradise for many months. I was fortunate to be in the care of loved ones, who let me be. They assumed a nervous breakdown; start of the uninstall, and were patient and saw I was starting to come back from my self imposed isolation. They let me have space and helped where they could.

But eventually I felt a need to return to culture, but I was not sure how to retain what I had gained, and not go backwards trying to reattach myself. Culture was still using the Old Operating System. This balancing act was a slow process, since I was alone to do this, and could not talk about it with others, since they would not understand. Too much water under the bridge.

One interesting part was I had been educated as a scientist; Old operating system, but after the seven plague memory reorganization and memory dump, I could not remember anything from my education, nor much from all my first generation of theories. Even prophesy was very vague. However, my natural ingenuity as an engineer and development person was still in tact; part of my retained personal settings.

I had an urge to reconnected myself back to my passion which was science reality. Initially, I tried to reinvent the universe from scratch, starting with scenarios that were extremely fast. These science theories were integrated from cradle to grave; BB to modern consciousness and all in the middle. I felt that all areas of evolutionary science; physics to psychology, had to be connected, instead of broken down into dissociated specialties. Each pass, was like moving along a helix, where I would learn from the previous cradle to grave integration, and then readjust and advance the next helix. Eventually, my memories of science started to come back, with me trying to build a bridge. This began in The Physics Forums in 2004. I presented my ideas and tried to relearn theirs.

With a friendly bridge starting to come together, I developed what I called the MDT theory for physics. The theory could reduce all the variables of physics to just three variables; mass, distance and time; potential. The basis for this theory was Einstein's theory of Special Relativity, and Einstein's claim that the laws of physic are the same in all references.

In SR, velocity; d/t, will cause relativistic changes in distance, time and mass. If we combine these changes in relativistic distance, time and mass, to the law of physics being the same in all references, the three variables in SR, should account for all of the diversity of physics variables, since they all adjust at the same time, so the laws will stay the same in all the references.

I was good at computer art and was inspired to draw a series of visual tools, that could show how these three variables could adjust any variable. It was like an ancient circular slide rule, with centric dials. You move the dials, to chosen settings, and solve a problem. But after a few weeks, I could not remember how I derived the the cross over. I mailed a copy of the diagrams to the Copy Right office in Washington. I figured I would place it on the back burner and maybe revisit it in the future.

The upgrading never seems to end, since it takes practice to use. I have accepted my fate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This quote is a type of hint. John, also called Mark, would see the coming of the Kingdom of God in his visions at the Island of Patmos. John was exiled to the Island of Patmos and would write about his visions in Revelations. He lived to an old age and died in prison. He was the only one spared by the Romans.

I am of the belief, based on my own experiences, that prophesy is less of a global human event; drama that occurs outside us, but more like an update into a new operating system of the human brain that occurs in individuals. Like a dream, Revelation skips around with hyperlinks. It is designed to trigger the unconscious.

Like in modern computers, before any new operating system is installed, there is an uninstall process that will be destructive to the old way; the old operating system has to be removed before there can be a clean install. Your settings are saved; what is personal to you survives. The Anti-Christ and False Prophet are connected to the uninstall process. They are destructive of the old; changes in times and law.

People from each generation, who become obsessed with the end times, through an internal drive or through collective external triggers, often are fueled with inner projections of the end times. They have started the uninstall process. But not all will get a clean uninstall; perseverance of the Saints, to allow the clean install process to happen.

In my experience, with prophesies, my previous work with the Unconscious mind and knowledge of collective human symbolism allowed me to figure out a hint in Revelation, as to how to approach prophesy. One was not to add to take away anything. One way to do that was to highlight all prophesy quotes, from the both Old and New Testament, I then printed them and then cut them all into quote size pieces, like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. I then assembled all the prophesy quotes; pieces, without any words of my own. I used the Four Horsemen as the core. Each was like an act in play. The rest attached.

The completed puzzle, painted a sequential picture of the four acts, that triggered the uninstall process in me. I became very animated and stressed in the beginning of the uninstall process, with self righteous indignation; ends justifies the means. I felt so much the pressure trying to get everyone prepared, while being fought every step of the way; activated a mystical psychosis. I had already trained for this, but I loss track of my training, and merged with it.

My dark prophet approach, in the name of good, was fine for the beginning of the uninstall process, and was an ego boost, since I was destroying the old ways in my visions. But one day, my life changed I had to turn on a dime, and become my own alter ego; shoe on the other foot. I got to meet Satan and had a nervous breakdown. That sort of short circuited my brain. I had to allow what would happen, to happen; strength perfected in weakness. It was the worse of times, but I got through it over several months.

The seven plagues, was the end of the uninstall process. This was connected to atonement for my entire past; relative morality, with the last plague; great earthquake, where mountains collapse and islands are not found, leading to a reorganization of my personal memory; good separates from evil; gather the armies, and then a large memory dump, leading to amnesia.

I had amnesia in terms of my life memory, but I was still me; my persona settings were saved. I was reborn. My ego was like that of a child and I had to grow up again, living in paradise for many months. I was fortunate to be in the care of loved ones, who let me be. They assumed a nervous breakdown; start of the uninstall, and were patient and saw I was starting to come back from my self imposed isolation. They let me have space and helped where they could.

But eventually I felt a need to return to culture, but I was not sure how to retain what I had gained, and not go backwards trying to reattach myself. Culture was still using the Old Operating System. This balancing act was a slow process, since I was alone to do this, and could not talk about it with others, since they would not understand. Too much water under the bridge.

One interesting part was I had been educated as a scientist; Old operating system, but after the seven plague memory reorganization and memory dump, I could not remember anything from my education, nor much from all my first generation of theories. Even prophesy was very vague. However, my natural ingenuity as an engineer and development person was still in tact; part of my retained personal settings.

I had an urge to reconnected myself back to my passion which was science reality. Initially, I tried to reinvent the universe from scratch, starting with scenarios that were extremely fast. These science theories were integrated from cradle to grave; BB to modern consciousness and all in the middle. I felt that all areas of evolutionary science; physics to psychology, had to be connected, instead of broken down into dissociated specialties. Each pass, was like moving along a helix, where I would learn from the previous cradle to grave integration, and then readjust and advance the next helix. Eventually, my memories of science started to come back, with me trying to build a bridge. This began in The Physics Forums in 2004. I presented my ideas and tried to relearn theirs.

With a friendly bridge starting to come together, I developed what I called the MDT theory for physics. The theory could reduce all the variables of physics to just three variables; mass, distance and time; potential. The basis for this theory was Einstein's theory of Special Relativity, and Einstein's claim that the laws of physic are the same in all references.

In SR, velocity; d/t, will cause relativistic changes in distance, time and mass. If we combine these changes in relativistic distance, time and mass, to the law of physics being the same in all references, the three variables in SR, should account for all of the diversity of physics variables, since they all adjust at the same time, so the laws will stay the same in all the references.

I was good at computer art and was inspired to draw a series of visual tools, that could show how these three variables could adjust any variable. It was like an ancient circular slide rule, with centric dials. You move the dials, to chosen settings, and solve a problem. But after a few weeks, I could not remember how I derived the the cross over. I mailed a copy of the diagrams to the Copy Right office in Washington. I figured I would place it on the back burner and maybe revisit it in the future.

The upgrading never seems to end, since it takes practice to use. I have accepted my fate.

Your history is a bit off. John the Apostle is not thought to be the author of the Gospel of John, and that author was not the author of Revelation either, Both works are anonymous. Also we have no evidence for the deaths of more than tow or three apostles at the most. That is also just church tradition and is not historical at all.

 

[InChrist]

And you have been consistently wrong. You can't handle the context.


You have a serious case of cognitive dissonance since serious Christians do recognize this as a major problem of the Bible.

And it does not matter if I believe the myths of the Bible or not. So why did you even ask that question? Though my lack of belief does give me one clear advantage. When the Bible contradicts itself I can see it. You can't afford to see those contradictions.

I certainly can handle the context and have no problem understanding its intended meaning; definitely no discomfort, mental stress or anything related to cognitive dissonance. I Love God’s Word and His communication.

You on the other hand, don’t. That’s why I asked the question. You are trying to use the scriptures ( which you do not believe or accept as true or reliable) to convince me that your view concerning what the scripture passages are saying is correct…according to you. In other words, you are using something you think is false to validate what you think is true . That is cognitive dissonance and/ or as the Bible says double-mindedness.

 

[InChrist]

It's only cognitive dissonance if holding conflicting believes makes the person uncomfortable. I think @InChrist isn't even aware of the conflict.

That’s correct. I am not aware of conflict over the scriptures Subduction Zone keeps arguing about since I have no conflict concerning God’s Word, overall. If or when I do come across scriptures that cause question or conflict I deal with it; pray, ask God for clarity and understanding, research and wait for resolution. God always at some point clears up the meaning of His Word, as He did the scriptures in Matthew 24 and related passages years ago for me.