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Featured Satan is liar and the father of it

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 74x12, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    This has been shown to be a quote of questionable authenticity.

    Aaand uuuup the balloon goes...
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    This is so woefully ill-conceived, I really can’t tell if you’re serious-but-misinformed, trolling, or chemically impaired.
     
  3. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus in the gospel of Luke mentions a blasphemy against the "Son of man" which is forgivable. We should let God decide who is forgivable or not.
    Othersheep, I like you but I think you're grasping at straws here. I can't really believe that Pharisees who persecute Christians are unforgivable. Do you? Jesus never says that Pharisees who persecute the church are unforgivable; if they repent. He was talking to an entire generation when He said all the righteous blood would come upon them. Not just one person. In the book of Acts, the Pharisees also followed Paul himself from city to city causing problems for Paul. Of course they can repent and if they were wise they would have repented like Paul did.

    Didn't Jesus say "forbid him not" when they saw someone casting out devils in Jesus name that didn't walk with them? Can you really forbid Paul who did notable miracles in Jesus name and cast out demons all over the place? Not even Peter, James or any other of the apostles forbid Paul.

    Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.

    Well, if we have to ask before we eat anything; then we're in trouble. Because you never know what meat was secretly sacrificed to idols. And what if they tell you it wasn't sacrificed when it really was sacrificed?

    It's all about the conscious. Nothing going into the mouth can truly make you unclean. Only what comes out of it. (Matthew 15:11, Matthew 15:17-20)
     
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  4. OtherSheep

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    QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    OtherSheep said: ↑

    Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
    12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
    12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
    Jesus in the gospel of Luke mentions a blasphemy against the "Son of man" which is forgivable. We should let God decide who is forgivable or not.
    [/QUOTE

    I completely agree… and I did so the last time this issue came up, too. Because what you are calling blasphemy against the Son is also blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

    From page 3 of the thread called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:

    QUOTE="OtherSheep, post: 5703027, member: 64612"]
    12:24 cast out devils, but by Beelzebub
    12:28 cast out devils by the Spirit of God
    12:32 speaketh against the Holy Ghost

    The Pharisees called the Holy Spirit the prince of devils, straight up.
    Of course, at the same time they blasphemed God and Jesus.[/QUOTE

    "And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming."

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    OtherSheep said: ↑
    The Prophecy:
    part 1

    Matthew 23:34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:"

    Fulfilled:

    Acts 26:10-11 "Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities."

    Pending:
    part 2

    Matthew 23:35 ": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
    I can't really believe that Pharisees who persecute Christians are unforgivable.
    [/QUOTE

    Jesus left us an example, so that we don't have to judge it, at all.

    Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
    Jo 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


    QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
    Jesus never says that Pharisees who persecute the church are unforgivable; if they repent. He was talking to an entire generation when He said all the righteous blood would come upon them. Not just one person.
    [/QUOTE

    Jesus condoms all of the Pharisees, en masse.
    Judas repented but wasn't forgiven, and neither is Saul... because:

    If the blood of the righteous were NOT blamed on ALL of the Pharisees which fulfill that prophecy, then Jesus would become a false prophet. I hope you know that can't happen.
    I'm also hoping that at least one soul figures this out, and repents of believing Saul.

    QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
    In the book of Acts, the Pharisees also followed Paul himself from city to city causing problems for Paul.
    [/QUOTE

    Where do you see the Pharisees persecuting Saul? I can't find it.
    So... Chapter and Verse, if you please. Thanx in advance.

    Here's what I did find:

    The Pharisee Gamaliel told them to let Peter and his crew alone, in Acts 5.
    Chapter 15 talks about a Pharisee sect that wanted the believers to come into the covenant and keep the law of Moses.
    Chapter 23 is where Saul subverts the trial by creating a word-war between the Pharisees and Sadducees… by pretending that the resurrection was why he was on trial, in verse 6… when the real reason is this:

    21:21 "And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs."

    Which is precisely what Saul's letters show him doing.


    QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
    Didn't Jesus say "forbid him not" when they saw someone casting out devils in Jesus name that didn't walk with them? Can you really forbid Paul who did notable miracles in Jesus name and cast out demons all over the place? Not even Peter, James or any other of the apostles forbid Paul.

    Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.
    [/QUOTE

    They were casting out demons by the prince of the demons, and dividing their own house in the process… as Jesus explains in Matthew 12… so why not let their demon get rid of the demon-infestation?

    But that act didn't make them into His sheep, because of this:

    Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

    In other words, keep the commandments of God… don't be those that work iniquity. Iniquity comes from the Greek word anomia, and means without law.
    Which is comprehended by Saul's grace-apart-from-the-works-of-the-law gospel.

    How many more nails in his coffin do you really need to see?

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    OtherSheep said: ↑

    10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

    How exactly does that prayer go?... Bless this meat... that I didn't know was sacrificed to demons because I didn't ask... wink wink.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
    Well, if we have to ask before we eat anything; then we're in trouble. Because you never know what meat was secretly sacrificed to idols. And what if they tell you it wasn't sacrificed when it really was sacrificed?

    It's all about the conscious. Nothing going into the mouth can truly make you unclean. Only what comes out of it. (Matthew 15:11, Matthew 15:17-20)
    [/QUOTE

    Then do what they did in Daniel, or learn to hunt and fish... Or at least don't believe someone who tells you to do what Jesus specifically tells you not to do.

    And it's not at all about conscience. It's about following the law that Jesus never ended but re-enforced.

    In fact, Jesus answered their question, precisely.

    15:2 they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
    15:20 to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

    The words between are His view of Pharisees and their followers.
    Obsessive-compulsive disorder is treatable, and so is the yeast of Pharisees.
     
    #144 OtherSheep, Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  5. OtherSheep

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    "And He saith, 'Go, and thou hast said to this people, Hear ye -- to hear, and ye do not understand, And see ye -- to see, and ye do not know. Declare fat the heart of this people, And its ears declare heavy, And its eyes declare dazzled, Lest it see with its eyes, And with its ears hear, and its heart consider, And it hath turned back, and hath health.'
    And I say, 'Till when, O Lord?'
    And He saith, 'Surely till cities have been wasted without inhabitant, And houses without man, And the ground be wasted -- a desolation, And Jehovah hath put man far off, And great [is] the forsaken part in the heart of the land. And yet in it a tenth, and it hath turned, And hath been for a burning, As a teil-tree, and as an oak, that in falling, Have substance in them, The holy seed [is] its substance!'"
    -- Isaiah 6:9-13.
     
  6. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Got to disagree unequivocally. However, I don't think this is the thread for such disputes.
     
  7. OtherSheep

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    QUOTE="sojourner, post: 5727701, member: 5010"]
    you’re serious-but-misinformed, trolling, or chemically impaired.
    [/QUOTE

    _______________________________
    "Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." -- Jesus, Matthew 5.
     
  8. OtherSheep

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    Thank you for your honesty.

    ______________________
    "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." -- Joshua 24:15.
     
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  9. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    And this has ... what, precisely, to do with my post?
     
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  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Student People Stabber

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    (Remember, Satan says life is too short and hard enough as it is to take him so seriously)
     
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  11. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    God. :)

    Real slaughtered sheep stay dead though.

    But Jesus' "sacrifice" was being born. Dying allowed him to return to godhood, yes?

    Why should I not lump in the tyrants of now with the tyrants of old?

    I mean, you have a group of 11 or so guys who were told by Jesus that they didn't understand him, yet they felt they should be the head teachers for the class they were flunking. That's tyrannical, right?

    Jesus also notes that your suffering in life will be relieved after death. But, you're DEAD, though. NOT living a life of suffering would've been nice.

    Please prove the bible knows anything about "the world".

    Why not the key of Periphas? Selyf? Bogud? Suizei? See what I mean about not knowing about "the world"?

    David was a ho who killed innocent people all over the place and slept with just about anyone. He's a lot like Julius, I guess. I wouldn't call that being a role model. The House of David ensured the failure of the Israelite state, ultimately leading to the near extinction of the population. Honestly, anyone trying to fix things on Earth should stay FAR away from any identification with these losers.
     
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  12. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    None of God's sheep stay dead. (Luke 20:38)
    Well it began His sacrifice I think. But, being tortured to death is not a sacrifice to you? Even if you come back to life 3 days later it's no picnic right?
    I suppose they still understood better than the others did. Once Jesus gave them the holy Spirit (Luke 24:49, Acts 2:1-4) then they understood much better.
     
  13. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Name one biblical character I can talk to today.

    God routinely acts like our cries about suffering are kinda stupid. Took Him 400 years to listen to "His people" that one time. This is a God who wants daily BBQ. I'm sure the BBQ doesn't like it. He doesn't then get to whine about a few puncture wounds and some lacerations. People suffer and die all the time. We don't make them gods for it.

    Only according to themselves, which is the problem. I want outside evidence.

    Not really. I don't see much character progression at all, though that's partly because the bible doesn't know how to do it properly.
     
  14. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Yup. That was my assessment, based upon what you wrote.
     
  15. OtherSheep

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    Just trying to decide which quote you dislike, and now I know.
    They killed Isaiah for saying things like that, and Jesus, too.
    They probably disagreed with the fact that they are blind... the murders prove God's point.
    Ironic, that.
     
    #155 OtherSheep, Aug 8, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Hate to break it to ya: you’re not Isaiah, and you’re not Jesus. And, you’re not saying the same things they said.
     
  17. OtherSheep

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    I would ask you how you figure that, but you blaspheme God all the time and don't seem to know anything about it, so...
    ________________________
    For the record, John does no such thing.
    And neither does Jesus, whom John is quoting.
     
  18. OtherSheep

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    I haven't called myself a prophet... I don't even call myself little christ.
    Having run through the possible meanings for your saying... :(

    Maybe you dislike the YLT for Isaiah 6?

    Here it is in the Septuagint:

    "8 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go to this people? And I said, behold, I am here, send me. And he said, Go, and say to this people, 9 Ye shall hear indeed, but ye shall not understand; and ye shall see indeed, but ye shall not perceive. 10 For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 11 And I said, How long, O Lord? And he said, Until cities be deserted by reason of their not being inhabited, and the houses by reason of there being no men, and the land shall be left desolate. 12 And after this God shall remove the men far off, and they that are left upon the land shall be multiplied. 13 And yet there shall be a tenth upon it, and again it shall be for a spoil, as a turpentine tree, and as an acorn when it falls out of its husk."

    Jesus was quoting the Septuagint. :cool:
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    You compared yourself to them, though.
     
  20. OtherSheep

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    Good thing Jesus didn't, tho, right?

    "And the word became flesh and dwelt among us."
    "God with us", Theanthropic Jesus.
    Carrying the sins of the world, when He died, the sins of the world were cut off.

    When He rose again, man became able to rise by believing on the only begotten Son of the Living God. And only if we keep His commandments, will Jesus raise us up at the last day... the commandments of the Father are life eternal. (John 12) Jesus regained His glorified body by being obedient even unto death. Everything Jesus did is our example. Not that man was once glorious, but that man has the right to become the children of God by believing on (trusting) Jesus, and by continuing to believe and to do every word Jesus commanded.
    ________________________
    What Jesus accomplished is not what Saul says. Because it takes more than a split-second belief... which is just like the seed which withers and dies, or is choked by thorns or the deceit of riches. Seed planted by the Father grows to maturity and produces good fruit.
     
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