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Satan is liar and the father of it

74x12

Well-Known Member
As i remember from the 3 versions of the bible ive read satan never killed anyone. Unlike god who killed every living organism on this planet except a close buddy, some of the buddies immediate family and around 20 million animals.

Oh yes and it wasn't satan who killed every firstborn child in Egypt.

Oh yes and it wasn't satan who carried out the 10s of thousands of other killings
God has the sovereign right to judge the world and people. You're basically arguing against the right of a judge to judge and pass sentence. That's another debate. You can't convict God of murder while denying the right of judges to convict anyone. If you can judge God; then God can judge also. And I think it's reasonable to assume He has more right to judge than you do.

As for Satan not being a homicidal maniac. You haven't proven that. And if you pay close attention to the Bible; you'll see that if we assume correctly that Satan is the one tempting Eve; then it's plain to see that Satan is responsible for all death. So there is that. Then, if you read the book of Job you see that Satan does indeed kill quite a few people the minute he gets a chance.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
As for Satan not being a homicidal maniac. You haven't proven that. And if you pay close attention to the Bible
The Bible doesn't say he is.
Satan is responsible for all death.
God is the one who made death so, and the one who saw to it we die. That isn't Satan's doing.
Then, if you read the book of Job you see that Satan does indeed kill quite a few people the minute he gets a chance.
God told Satan to do it.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
What is a lie?
That Satan is a liar, because in no scene where he appears does he do so. All he is ever guilty of is uncovering the darkness (P)eople don't want to admit to. Know thyself, and he has nothing on you.

What god or creator makes nothing and tells you it is something?
Yahweh?

Note that in Eden, it is God who was less than honest about the real reason A&E shouldn't eat the fruit. He makes it sound like it's poisonous or something, when the reality is that it gives superpowers and God didn't want to share. He confirms the serpent's hypothesis VERBATIM. It's like how parents told kids their eyes would cross if they sat in front of the TV when the reality was the game was on and you were in the way.

God is responsible for Satan's lies because he created Satan, knew what Satan would do, let Satan into the garden to tempt Eve, made Eve so dumb that she would listen to a talking snake, then God continues to let Satan deceive people.
Yes, it's God's fault, not Satan's, but because God was there and Satan ISN'T.

Satan created lies, illusion.
Quote an actual scene where he does this.

He's not equal with Adonai.
Then why care?

Jesus taught that satan was the father of lies.
Jesus is lying. Ironic, no?

By lying he introduced death into the world.
So, if Satan calls out that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, he is lying?

But, Jesus came as the Light into the world to destroy the veil of darkness.
True power is to understand the balanced Force. :)

The scripture says that every Word of God is true.
Which is also a lie.

Let God be true and every man a liar.
If every man is a liar and men authored the bible, then ...?

They will be shut up in a pit.
Yes, we also lock away the "inconvenient".

Scriptures inspired by God.
As told by men, who are all liars. It's not our fault the authors wrote themselves into a corner.

No one can accuse God of hypocrisy because God came down here to experience it all even though He didn't have to do it.
He didn't experience old age.

He faced the worst that satan could throw at Him.
But Satan's a chump compared to God. It's like trying to shoot the Hulk with a BB gun. Good luck with that.

They tortured Jesus to death and it was not pretty.
Given that after resurrection it only mentions maybe two wounds when he should look like ground meat, he healed awfully fast.

So if we suffer with Him; then we'll reign with Him also.
Does the guy also sit with Jesus?

Also, only God is King, right ... so why the constant carrot of co-governing that God uses to get you to follow Him? And why are people so arrogant that they think they deserve a spot in such authority over others?

What was it about sitting your butt at the honored seat and Jesus would bump you to the back alley?

And we can change the world if we have faith.
I would argue balls, but I guess that works too.

Jesus did this more than anyone. He stood in the gap for the entire world. He made up the hedge. And all the power of hell came against Him.
And then he came back to life, which negates sacrifice magic.


So God did allow all this evil to come so that goodness could be proven good and could triumph over the power evil.
So, it wasn't real, then. God created the simulation and we played and either way, we lose because His kid will only return the controller in some indeterminate time?

But God will arise upon those who are faithful to the end.
I've seen lots of faithful die. What is the preferred max body count before God steps up?

Is tempting Jesus in the desert really all the power of hell?
If I want all the powers of hell, I go to only ONE person:

I mean, she even DATES Hades:

What a miserable way of thinking!
Yeah, I mean, I live with chronic depression and often have suicidal ideation, but I don't hate life THAT bad.

Yet he will never receive salvation from God, but will struck down into the depths of hell. If thats not the saddest existence in all of creation then I don't know what is.
It's super sad, because God promises us that He has "grace" but the real test would be to clear Satan, and no one thinks God should. Even sinners love those who love them, after all.

The Bible calls him the prince of the power of the air
I thought that was Pazuzu.

And the funny thing is, while he's an evil demon god, people would pray to him to protect women and children from his dreaded WIFE. :)

So he does have domain and sovereignty
Any God who can't control one little planet doesn't deserve the title.

Oh yeah ... homicidal maniac, nice guy.
He didn't flood the earth and then promise to not kill anyone ever again with water and then let his kid fix sin and death and THEN find the loophole to kill the entire planet again by using things other than water.

How do you explain the existence of lies in a universe made by a God of truth?
God lied about being Truth?

Maybe it's like "Everything I say is a lie".

Satan is as real as you or I unfortunately.
He's also severely overrated.

You're basically arguing against the right of a judge to judge and pass sentence. That's another debate. You can't convict God of murder while denying the right of judges to convict anyone.
IIRC, we can take corrupt judges off the bench. It's a thing.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
The Bible doesn't say he is.
Jesus says he's a murderer. That's good enough for me.
God is the one who made death so, and the one who saw to it we die. That isn't Satan's doing.
God "made" death? Oh really? Who lied to Eve? Who ate the forbidden fruit? God didn't create death.
God told Satan to do it.
God gave Satan permission to test Job. God did not tell him to kill his kids and servants. That was purely Satan's idea.
 
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74x12

Well-Known Member
That Satan is a liar, because in no scene where he appears does he do so. All he is ever guilty of is uncovering the darkness (P)eople don't want to admit to. Know thyself, and he has nothing on you.


Yahweh?

Note that in Eden, it is God who was less than honest about the real reason A&E shouldn't eat the fruit. He makes it sound like it's poisonous or something, when the reality is that it gives superpowers and God didn't want to share. He confirms the serpent's hypothesis VERBATIM. It's like how parents told kids their eyes would cross if they sat in front of the TV when the reality was the game was on and you were in the way.


Yes, it's God's fault, not Satan's, but because God was there and Satan ISN'T.


Quote an actual scene where he does this.


Then why care?


Jesus is lying. Ironic, no?


So, if Satan calls out that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, he is lying?


True power is to understand the balanced Force. :)


Which is also a lie.


If every man is a liar and men authored the bible, then ...?


Yes, we also lock away the "inconvenient".


As told by men, who are all liars. It's not our fault the authors wrote themselves into a corner.


He didn't experience old age.


But Satan's a chump compared to God. It's like trying to shoot the Hulk with a BB gun. Good luck with that.


Given that after resurrection it only mentions maybe two wounds when he should look like ground meat, he healed awfully fast.


Does the guy also sit with Jesus?

Also, only God is King, right ... so why the constant carrot of co-governing that God uses to get you to follow Him? And why are people so arrogant that they think they deserve a spot in such authority over others?

What was it about sitting your butt at the honored seat and Jesus would bump you to the back alley?


I would argue balls, but I guess that works too.


And then he came back to life, which negates sacrifice magic.



So, it wasn't real, then. God created the simulation and we played and either way, we lose because His kid will only return the controller in some indeterminate time?


I've seen lots of faithful die. What is the preferred max body count before God steps up?


If I want all the powers of hell, I go to only ONE person:

I mean, she even DATES Hades:


Yeah, I mean, I live with chronic depression and often have suicidal ideation, but I don't hate life THAT bad.


It's super sad, because God promises us that He has "grace" but the real test would be to clear Satan, and no one thinks God should. Even sinners love those who love them, after all.


I thought that was Pazuzu.

And the funny thing is, while he's an evil demon god, people would pray to him to protect women and children from his dreaded WIFE. :)


Any God who can't control one little planet doesn't deserve the title.


He didn't flood the earth and then promise to not kill anyone ever again with water and then let his kid fix sin and death and THEN find the loophole to kill the entire planet again by using things other than water.


God lied about being Truth?

Maybe it's like "Everything I say is a lie".


He's also severely overrated.


IIRC, we can take corrupt judges off the bench. It's a thing.
Suicide is caused by evil spirits of suicide. They are murdering spirits. They like to convince people to kill themselves. I will pray for you against satan.

God only speaks the truth and satan is a murderer from the beginning. He still is a murderer and he's going to kill a lot of people before he's finished.

It's best to be on God's side so you're protected from the murdering messengers of satan. Satan delights in death and destruction. Many different spirits of murder exist some cause suicide; some cause cancer, some cause actual physical murders etc. It's all murder, murder, murder from satan all day long.

Psalm 44:22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Maybe not by name. But he is still killing people to this day.
1 Chronicles 21
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people

Deuteronomy 3
-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value

Joshua 6
-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses”
-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

2 Kings 10:18-27
God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Judges 21:10-24
God has an entire town killed and the virgins repeatedly raped, and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.

Numbers 31:7-18
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men . . . Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."

Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house . . . After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife."

:eek: Can't seem to find anywhere mentioning Satan harming a hair on anyone's head
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
1 Chronicles 21
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people

Deuteronomy 3
-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value

Joshua 6
-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses”
-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

2 Kings 10:18-27
God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Judges 21:10-24
God has an entire town killed and the virgins repeatedly raped, and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.

Numbers 31:7-18
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men . . . Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."

Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house . . . After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife."

:eek: Can't seem to find anywhere mentioning Satan harming a hair on anyone's head
Those who are blind often have a problem finding things. The righteous indignation of a holy God. God is the Righteous Judge and will take or give Life. His Word is a Sword cutting both ways. On one side the slain fall and on the other dry bones come to life. Unstoppable. For our God is a consuming Fire. A fire can preserve life or it can take it.

Even sailors respect the sea although it brings them their livelihood; yet it can take their life. How much more should man fear God who gives him all things but is the judge of the living and the dead?

But back to the main topic. Satan and his minions have been killing people constantly since the beginning. They have spirits of suicide, spirits of murder, spirits of every harmful thing that attach themselves to people. They also have spirits of cancer and other illnesses to cause harm and death.
 
Suicide is caused by evil spirits of suicide. They are murdering spirits. They like to convince people to kill themselves. I will pray for you against satan.

God only speaks the truth and satan is a murderer from the beginning. He still is a murderer and he's going to kill a lot of people before he's finished.

It's best to be on God's side so you're protected from the murdering messengers of satan. Satan delights in death and destruction. Many different spirits of murder exist some cause suicide; some cause cancer, some cause actual physical murders etc. It's all murder, murder, murder from satan all day long.

Psalm 44:22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

If Satan kills people using 'spirits" then it isn't evil, but the natural order of the world. Just like God isn't consider evil when he unleashes a natural disaster on part of the world that kills people. It's just the natural order of the world.

But in reality the only reason for the death of human's is entropy. Some people have a chemical imbalance in their brain that causes depression which effect the logic area of your brain. So you make bad decisions. Some people make impulse decision for monetary gain and in doing so might end up taking a life. Some times the body is exposed to a foreign element that causes the cells to mutate into cancer cells. Sometimes it just happens to be because of old age. But thats okay. It's the natural order.

The reason why you think Satan and spirits cause these problems is because of your innate human desire to find meaning in life and thats okay. It's okay to find meaning a christian religion. It's okay. Whatever helps one person get through this life.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Denial isn't a river in Egypt. :p
Belief in fantasy doesn't turn fantasy into reality. Suicidal ideation is not caused by demons, and to believe so is to downplay the mental illnesses that do cause such thinking, and the struggles of those who deal with it.
You blame the judge or the con-artist that got you to commit a crime?
The only con artist I see is the one who set humans up to fail, made all the rules, made it so we would allegedly need a messiah, and then tries to lay a major guilt trip on us by trying to make us feel bad over something Jehovah himself decided would happen. If someone sets my house on fire and then puts the fire out I'm not going to be calling them a hero for putting it out when they started it in the first place.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
But back to the main topic. Satan and his minions have been killing people constantly since the beginning. They have spirits of suicide, spirits of murder, spirits of every harmful thing that attach themselves to people. They also have spirits of cancer and other illnesses to cause harm and death.
How about some evidence? I just showed you plenty of evidence of a ruthless, serial killer called God, now show me anything comparable by Satan.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
God has the sovereign right to judge the world and people. You're basically arguing against the right of a judge to judge and pass sentence. That's another debate. You can't convict God of murder while denying the right of judges to convict anyone. If you can judge God; then God can judge also. And I think it's reasonable to assume He has more right to judge than you do.

As for Satan not being a homicidal maniac. You haven't proven that. And if you pay close attention to the Bible; you'll see that if we assume correctly that Satan is the one tempting Eve; then it's plain to see that Satan is responsible for all death. So there is that. Then, if you read the book of Job you see that Satan does indeed kill quite a few people the minute he gets a chance.

No, im arguing against the perverted morality of murder and those who accept murder because god done it.

I'm also arguing against your deception in making satan out to be a murderer when in fact there is no such mention in the bible. But if you feel qualified to write and publish another version of the bible then i am sure it will be well received in certain quarters.

Note, tempting is not murder. Do you want a dictionary definition?

Neither is assumption.

All death? So did satan design life to be finite. I am sure you would shout 'god done it' from the rooftops american

Actually i withdraw my statement, my memory failed me. Satan is actually said to kill some people, one (sarah) was inadvertent (oh wait a moment, that one isnt mentioned in the bible is it). The killing of Job's wife, children and slaves was condoned/ordered by god in a bet so it was gods will.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
No, im arguing against the perverted morality of murder and those who accept murder because god done it.

I'm also arguing against your deception in making satan out to be a murderer when in fact there is no such mention in the bible. But if you feel qualified to write and publish another version of the bible then i am sure it will be well received in certain quarters.

Note, tempting is not murder. Do you want a dictionary definition?

Neither is assumption.

All death? So did satan design life to be finite. I am sure you would shout 'god done it' from the rooftops american

Actually i withdraw my statement, my memory failed me. Satan is actually said to kill some people, one (sarah) was inadvertent (oh wait a moment, that one isnt mentioned in the bible is it). The killing of Job's wife, children and slaves was condoned/ordered by god in a bet so it was gods will.
I don't think I'm going to change your mind about God. You think God's morally wrong. I believe He's a just Judge with the right to take life or give it. We're all going to die you know? So God can take people any time. The idea that God "murders" is just a way of protesting against the existence of any death. I understand you're not happy about death.

As for satan there is plenty of evidence that he is a murderer and still is. It's bizarre to me that you think tempting someone(basically tricking someone) to their death is not murder. But okay, suit yourself.

Sarah killed by satan? That is from the book(midrash) of Jasher.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
How about some evidence? I just showed you plenty of evidence of a ruthless, serial killer called God, now show me anything comparable by Satan.
The truth hurts sometimes. You're arguing against God's right to judge rather than making a case against God for "murder". Ultimately God gave all life and takes all life. Whoever dies is ultimately dead because God decided. I understand (as I told ChristineM) that you're not happy about the existence of death but you have to deal with it anyway. Most people don't like death. It's a hard world and people have to be tough to face the truth.

I've already presented evidence that satan is a murderer. It's not my fault if people don't believe me. If you can't believe Jesus (John 8:44); then I don't see how you'll believe me.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
No, im arguing against the perverted morality of murder and those who accept murder because god done it.

I'm also arguing against your deception in making satan out to be a murderer when in fact there is no such mention in the bible. But if you feel qualified to write and publish another version of the bible then i am sure it will be well received in certain quarters.

Note, tempting is not murder. Do you want a dictionary definition?

Neither is assumption.

All death? So did satan design life to be finite. I am sure you would shout 'god done it' from the rooftops american

Actually i withdraw my statement, my memory failed me. Satan is actually said to kill some people, one (sarah) was inadvertent (oh wait a moment, that one isnt mentioned in the bible is it). The killing of Job's wife, children and slaves was condoned/ordered by god in a bet so it was gods will.

Regarding the matter of people being killed by either Satan or God, just to play devil's advocate (heh), I was thinking about possible differences based on the theological implications.

For one, religion constantly drills into people the concept that "death" is not the end; it's merely a transformation from the physical world to the spiritual world. If this is true, then the act of God killing someone and then taking them into an Afterlife of paradise and happiness, then that may not necessarily be an evil act (if the theology is anything to go by).

It is said that God can create life, then take it away, then recreate it or resurrect it all over again. It is also said that God is the ultimate judge as to whether a soul goes to Heaven or Hell in the Afterlife. These are things that God can supposedly do, which Satan is unable to do.

Of course, this would also beg the question as to why religionists or God would consider life to be so darn important and meaningful that it would be considered such a horrific and abominable sin to take someone else's life. If death is merely a transformation from a limited biological existence to a spiritual Afterlife of paradise, then murderers are actually doing a favor for their victims (if the theology is anything to go by). Essentially, religion makes our own biological lives meaningless, so why would God or any believer be so concerned about "sin" in an existence which is utterly pointless and devoid of any real meaning?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I don't think I'm going to change your mind about God. You think God's morally wrong. I believe He's a just Judge with the right to take life or give it. We're all going to die you know? So God can take people any time. The idea that God "murders" is just a way of protesting against the existence of any death. I understand you're not happy about death.

As for satan there is plenty of evidence that he is a murderer and still is. It's bizarre to me that you think tempting someone(basically tricking someone) to their death is not murder. But okay, suit yourself.

Sarah killed by satan? That is from the book(midrash) of Jasher.

No, i think the same of god as i do of harry harry potter.

However you don't and to have meaningful dialogue it is unfortunate that i must communicate in terms you can understand.

The idea that the willfully taking a life is murder is not nullified by *i believe*

Then you understand wrong. Death happens, what i am not happy about is murder and those that condone murder because its part of their faith..

Its bizarre to me that you consider temptation to be murder. It may end in murder, it may end in a chocolate bar.

Its also bizarre to me that you accept murder on religious grounds depending only on who does the murder.
 
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