Satan information misleading..

[oracle]

While I cannot subscribe to the second paragraph, on account of my theology, but with your first paragraph, I'd be more than happy to use the fallen angels as an allegory to human pride, the Fall, and so on, and all at the same time hold to literal fallen angels.

Well of course, I mean what I said metaphorically was well as literal, you gotta have both to get a clear understanding, without discrimination of one or the other.

And of the second paragraph, I'm not sure if you understand what I meant, basically where we are at now, the suffering we go through, I use the anology of "birth pangs", as in a mother giving birth to a child. The pain we go through is necessary, and is a process of learning, and what is being given birth to is knowledge or awareness. "Satan" is the cause of much pain, a "defect" which I mean on metaphorical terms, a defect caused by ignorance of the soul (lack of knowledge and awareness). So, I compare this aspect of Satan, why we are here, why we suffer, etc; to a mother who is giving birth to a child and in the process, experiences the pangs of birth.

 

[No*s]

And of the second paragraph, I'm not sure if you understand what I meant, basically where we are at now, the suffering we go through, I use the anology of "birth pangs", as in a mother giving birth to a child. The pain we go through is necessary, and is a process of learning, and what is being given birth to is knowledge or awareness. "Satan" is the cause of much pain.

That's kind of what I thought you meant. I'm of a very different persuasion: the suffering may be used as a lesson, but it's a direct result of corruption and imperfection. They are only birth pangs insofar as this world is dying, and the next one is coming. However, discussing that is a bit off-topic.

 

[SoulTYPE]

I don't really mind about off topic. Because if the "powers" of the satanic mind are destroying this world, will he not attempt to dismantle the next one?

 

[oracle]

That's kind of what I thought you meant. I'm of a very different persuasion: the suffering may be used as a lesson, but it's a direct result of corruption and imperfection. They are only birth pangs insofar as this world is dying, and the next one is coming. However, discussing that is a bit off-topic.

But that ties into exactly what I mean, its just another aspect of looking at it.

 

[No*s]

I don't really mind about off topic. Because if the "powers" of the satanic mind are destroying this world, will he not attempt to dismantle the next one?

I can only speak here form a Christian perspective, but I doubt his impotence will be becoming for that goal.

When God appears, all creation will be inundated with Him, and every individual will experience Him in accordance with his own spiritual life. So, those who haven't been restored will experience Him in a manner that is, um, quite painful.

Not only that, but his power will be pretty much nullified at the same time (think of Morgoth in Tolkien's works as an analogy here).

 

[No*s]

But that ties into exactly what I mean, its just another aspect of looking at it.

OK, then we emphasise two different parts of it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[SoulTYPE]

So, those who haven't been restored will experience Him in a manner that is, um, quite painful.

Please continue...

 

[oracle]

Adam and Eve is metaphor, and represents the masculine (projective) and feminine (receptive) parts of the Human psyche that were split into two. It was Eve who gave the "forbidden fruit" to Adam. Eve (Chavvah), means "life" and it represents the soul and is manifested into the heart, the receptive part of our psyche which consists of memories. Adam (Adam/Adamah) means "red earth", is PLURAL meaning mankind, and represents the mind which manifested into the physical body.

It is our souls, being ignorant and without knowledge, absorbed the ego and gave it to the mind. Resulting in Death, or rather spiritual death (spirituality is about connection), that we become disconnected with God, and the rest of each other (we are pieces of God), and thus be expelled from the Garden of Eden which is translated "enclosure of pleausure" which was planted eastward, this hebrew word is translated as "ancient, beginning" (as the sun rises in the east). This garden of Eden metaphorically represents the primordial state of creation that was without suffering, when mankind was in total union with God and each other.

Here is something else that may trip you out. Forgive me if this is off topic. Eve corresponds to the right side of the brain, and Adam the left. Some of you may believe this to be a weird concept, but it is difficult to fully understand what I am talking about unless if perhaps you study neurology or biological psychology.

Eve is the receptive part of the brain consisting of the "soul" memories, and the "heart" emotions. The right side of the brain mainly processes perceptual information from the five senses, and by using this information stores it, recognizes what is in the environment by using memory, and releases chemicals and hormones (emotions) according to what is being percieved. In other words, "temptation" and desire comes from the right side of the brain, and "gives the forbidden fruit to her husband" (the left side). Being born a child, the cortex is ignorant and has little memory to begin with. It is necassary for a child to learn right from wrong by eating the "forbidden fruit", which causes pain and death, the result of our actions.That is why it is called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil", or rather should it be called "the tree of cause and effect".

The receptive part of the brain is "feminine", it recieves information from the outside, consisting of the perceptual centers of the brain, and the emotional centers of both brain and body. The emotional centers consists of glands and control centers such as the hypothalamus and amygdala. The hypothalamus regulates hormones, while the amygdala subconsciously recognizes things that are hostile, it releasing chemicals that create things such as anger or fear. When it recognizes the opposite sex as being a potentional mate, it releases hormones that create lust. It also disrupts the control of rational thought. It is the seat of human sexuality and aggression.

Amygdala: 1. An almond-shaped neuro structure involved in producing and responding to nonverbal signs of anger, avoidance, defensiveness, and fear. 2. A small mass of gray matter that inspires aversive cues, such as the freeze reaction, sweaty palms, and the tense-mouth display. 3. A primeval arousal center, originating in early fishes, which is central to the expression of negative emotions in man. -- http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/amygdala.htm

Emotions are released based on perceptual information.That is why I say that the ego consists of three things,

Perceptual, Emotional, Cognitive
Self-deception, desire, ignorance.

Or rather 666! The ego is Satan, the antichrist. The image of the beast is animalistic nature, as opposed to the image of God, which is divine nature.
We are both animal and divine beings. That is why Satan, "is the God of this world" , because it is referring to the material, animalistic, physical aspect of our being and this world: The kingdom of the beast, the kingdom of the flesh, the lust of the flesh, the world, and many christians are lost in this world, forgeting their divine origin because they recieved the mark of the beast on their forehead (metaphorically it represents what I have been explaining, satan originates in the mind), and the right hand (representing curruption, or rather Egosim in disguise). And this has currupted the church, (destroying the temple of God). And the anti-christ has already claimed himself in the church with false doctrines that teach that it is okay to keep on sinning, and the result is that satan (egoism), resides in the church! (the third secret of Fatima...)

The three reasons why "Eve" ate the forbidden fruit: Because it was good for food, pleasing to the eye, desireable to make one wise.

heart, mind, soul
Physical, mental, spiritual.
Desire, self-deception, ignorance=666


These are also the three tempations Jesus faced in the wilderness!

Booyah!

 

[SoulTYPE]

Oracle, that was very helpful and I thank you. And nothing trips me out lol.

 

[No*s]

Please continue...

OK, here goes...

When God created the world, He created it good, and He created man in His image and likeness (But not perfect, as is evidenced by the subsequent events). He did something very similar with the angels. Satan, however, tried to hijak God's position. In so doing, he rebelled and fashioned his own dwelling (all this being figurative for a spiritual being).

Satan didn't limit his attacks to merely God, but he attacked all of creation, and sought to use it as his own power, and his own domain. Hence, Satan is the "god of this world," as Paul put it.

To continue the Tolkien analogy (it is imperfect, but still germaine), Illuvitar created Melkor and all the rest of the Ainur. Melkor, though, sought to change the song, so that he could usurp the place of Illuvitar. In the end, he failed, and subsequently attacked, and corrupted, the elves and some of the Maiar. In order to further extend his domain Melkor, now Morgoth, extended his essence into the world so that he could control it.

In the end, Morgoth made all of Arda his ring, something Sauron only dimly imitated. Morgoth was later destroyed, but Tolkien seemed to make clear that Morgoth would return one day for a climatic final battle. In the end, a new creation would emerge from this...one free from Morgoth's taint.

Here, I say I feel, and am not speaking for my Church. Satan did something similar in his rebellion. He sought control of all creation, and when God created humanity (for, I think, the purpose of countering this, but this is pure speculation...and that can be very hazerdous), he sought control of humanity as well: for we were material and spiritual, as opposed to his being merely material. He did so successfully, and in the process subjected the whole world to "futility," as Paul puts it.

God was now hidden from us, and we could no longer experience His full presence. Then, in order to protect humanity, expelled us from the Garden so that we couldn't eat from the Tree of Life. That Tree is Christ. If we had eaten of it without a reunion with God's nature, then we would have lived forever in a fallen state in God's presence: Hell.

So, God became man in order to enable us to experience the Divine again. Now, in the future, God will unveal Himself unto the whole creation, and in so doing, He will recreate it and free it completely from the taint of death and corruption. Satan will then be impotent, and his rebellion failed. I don't think he extended his essence into all creation, but his power will disappear, and he will be just another creature.

Hopefully that clears up my intent some. I didn't speak much of the term for "accuser," but this is the general gist of how I treat it, and from what I have learned, it is quite compatible with the Church's teachings. I apologize for the length, though.

 

[No*s]

Oracle,

That was, um, very detailed...and far more detailed than I could go (I try to remain as closely as possible within the Deposit). Still, it looks like you've thought it through.

 

[SoulTYPE]

No* I knew most of this but what I did not see in your reply is that HOW the people not of God are experiencing pain in the future.

You referred to Satan as a being. I will leave you to discuss that with oracle and Maize.

 

[oracle]

This is an example of Egoism within the church------>

Satan is more at war with Christians than non-Christians. He wars primarily with those not his!

"Satan" is at war with everything in this world. We are all children of God, however most are lost. Those who are "his" are those who overcome the ego, and take on the divine nature which Christ made the example. But, we are all His children.

 

[SoulTYPE]

But, we are all His children.

How so? Not that I am being a dick, I am interested in a description of this.

 

[No*s]

No* I knew most of this but what I did not see in your reply is that HOW the people not of God are experiencing pain in the future.

You referred to Satan as a being. I will leave you to discuss that with oracle and Maize.

I'm sorry. I didn't know exactly what you wanted. I thought you'd know a bunch of it, but was clueless as to what it specifically was, so I tried to cover every possible contingent.

Did it answer suficiently what I meant by experiencing God in pain?

Again, I apologize.

 

[oracle]

How so? Not that I am being a dick, I am interested in a description of this.

Because you, being a spiritual being that may be aware or asleep, have orginated from God because God created you, you are a piece of God. Everything that exists, are facets "faces" of his expression... We all originate from Him, and therefore we are all a part of His essence. God himself is not just a single being, but a metaphor of ultimate reality, beginning and end, the alpha and omega, the ALL (in no way do I say that no one should relate to Him as Father, but I do so myself, as I take it both literal and metaphorical).
This concept is hard to understand. It is about wholeness, that you, me, and No*s, behind the illusion of our physical bodies, behind the illusion of religious dogma, we are connected to each other (every human being), we all come from the same Divine source and will dissolve back to the same. It is "satan", the ego, SIN, that causes disconnection, division between brethren, in reality death and suffering. And those who sin, and continue to sin being aware that they are sinning (sin that leads to death), live lives of condemnation. The ultimate reality of hell is one who isolates him/herself because of selfishness (ego/satan), and disconnects themselves from God and from every other being. They are alone, cold, naked, starving, flaoting in utter darkness. They famish the flesh but leave the spirit starving. That is the ultimate reality of their existance. But what is sad is that they do not even realize that they ARE ALREADY in hell...being tortured by their own personal egoistic demons (figuratively speaking), being tossed like waves in the wind wherever desire and self-deception takes them. They are asleep in their graves, drunk with their ego, but will rise at the sound of a "trumpet"...

The kingdom of heaven is spread out all over the earth, but people do not see it. It is about wholeness, connection to everyone and everything. It is about embracing everyone and everything around you, instead of thinking with the self. It is about embracing me, No*s, everyone around you, empathetically. That is the Essence of the Divine nature: compassion, generousity, and humility. That in essence, is truth without distortion, without misconception. And when you decide to overcome your own ego, to be reborn in Spirit, to shake off the wine that many are drunk with, when you take off the outer garment (the flesh) and trample over it, the Divine will be awakened in you, your eyes will be opened and you will see and be aware that what I say is true, the distinction between truth and deception will be clear to you...

I believe that we should embrace each other in empathy, rather than viewing our own beliefs as being the only answer. We should go beyond ourselves and make endeavors to understand each other, regardless of religious dogma. I think most religions have much truth, and each can bring mankind closer to God. I think peace should be the focus of all three, rather than relentless arguements and petty quibbling.

Here is a poem I wrote years ago. Although it is talking about prejudice of ethnicity, the same applies to the prejudice between religions.
Harmonic Strings

Color, appearance, race.
They are illusions.
A mask concealing reality, our true face.
Pointless apathy against blood and birth.
Are we all not born from mothers' wombs?
Walk on the same earth?

Yet brethren spills brethren's blood.
Pigment of skin justifies.
Blind is the unlawful judge,
Who's evidence is also creed.
Hatred is the silent witness.
Innocence is the righteous plead.

We are musical strings,
Each emitting a separate note.
Harmonically, all stroked brings,
Beauty, sounds soothing to the soul.
Break all but one string,
Nothing's left to play, everything is dull.


With this analogy, perhaps one could understand that the diversity of religions makes life more dynamic. But in the process, people forget that we are all the same, are decendants from the same. Each string on an instrument, however emitting different notes, are all made up of the same material.

The different notes, the dogma in between, is just an illusion: a mask concealing this reality.

 

[lilithu]

Satan's war against God is for domain or property rights of your soul!

lol! Even in religion, we never get away from the capitalism.

Satan is more at war with Christians than non-Christians. He wars primarily with those not his!

Well, thank Gawd for that! >

HEY, I just realized that there is no devil smiley! We've got to get that fixed!

 

[oracle]

In reality most of these are true (I took out the ones that werent reasonable), but you have to look at it not only literally, but metaphorically, and with the information I provided you with, you will see this is all true.

The devil will attack you today in one of 5 ways:
----------------------------------------------
Get Christians back into the world
Disrupt or corrupt worship & doctrine
Cause trouble & division among brethren

Historical victories of Satan:
------------------------------
Adam and Eve eating forbidden fruit
Enticing God's people to worship idols
Murder of Jesus Christ: Lk 22:3
Every time a Christian gives us on the faith and falls away: 1 Ti 1:18-20
Corruption of doctrine: 1 Ti 4:1-4 "doctrines of demons": Today there are 500 churches!

Satan's war against God is for domain or property rights of your soul!
------------------------------------------------------------------
God purchased us from Satan with blood: 1 Co 6:20;7:23; Ax 20:28; 1 Pe 1:18; 2 Pe 2:1; Rev 5:9
Satan schemes to bring Christians under damnation of God: 2 Cor 2:11; 1 Pe 5:8; Mt 13:28,39
He sets hidden snares for Christians: 2 Ti 2:26; 1 Ti 3:7

 

[SoulTYPE]

Historical victories of Satan:
------------------------------

Enticing God's people to worship idols

Do you have any idea whiich idols these were or consist of?

 

[oracle]

Do you have any idea whiich idols these were or consist of?

It means materialism, material wealth, things neither living or breathing. The ego entices you to become attatched to material things which have no value or meaning, because they are neither breathing or living. To value something so... More so than another human being or God, I consider this as idolatry.
One may erect graven images, but even if she/he does not, it is the heart itself that committs idolization, by attatching itself to material things, even valuing an object above the life of another. No one can have two masters. For he will love one, and hate the other. Neither can a man ride two horses or shoot one arrow with two bows. You either serve God or you serve mammon.