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Featured satan a god?

Discussion in 'Monotheism' started by syo, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    So God is not the ruler of this World and as such this would mean Satan is on a level with the power of God according to Christianity?

    In Islam Satan has no power and can all but whisper into the hearts and minds of men.

    As per Judaism, Angels are without sin and worship God perfectly. Can you provide Scripture showing Demons are fallen Angels?
     
  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Is Satan a god? What isn't these days?
     
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  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Excellent.
     
  4. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    No, not at all. Satan never challenged God's power. If he had he would have been erased in a microsecond. He challenged God's right to rule mankind but claiming that man didn't need to, or want to, serve God. This legal issue has been before the heavenly court since Adam's sin. For this reason satan has been given freedom to rule this world within limitations. God will do as he needs and satan can do nothing to stop him to bring about the kingdom promised through the Messiah. The things God promised will happen shall happen no matter what satan wants. Satan can do nothing to stop God from bringing satan to an end. God permitted for legal reasons satan to have liberties to work out in this world, to blind people to God's promises to a degree.


    Revelation 12:7-9 . . .battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
    2 Peter 2:4 4 Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar′ta‧rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;
    Revelation 16:13-14 13 And I saw three unclean inspired expressions [that looked] like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.
    From the above scriptures, it may be understood clearly that satan has angels who serve him, these are fallen angels, and Peter also tells us of angels who sinned. In Rev 16 we see these angels are called demons.

    Jesus shows us this also here:
    Matthew 8:28-31 28 When he got to the other side, into the country of the Gad‧a‧renes′, there met him two demon-possessed men coming out from among the memorial tombs, unusually fierce, so that nobody had the courage to pass by on that road. 29 And, look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?” 30 But a long way off from them a herd of many swine was at pasture. 31 So the demons began to entreat him, saying: “If you expel us, send us forth into the herd of swine.. . .​
    Clearly, these demons knew who Jesus was and thought he had come to punish them before their time. These demons are fallen angels who sinned in various manners.

    I know this may not be what is said in your teachings, but this is what we believe.
     
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  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    People believe all manner of baseless things.
     
  6. Yohanan ben Yaaqov

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    No, the snake in the garden was a snake, nothing more and nothing less.
     
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  7. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least my beliefs are grounded in holy scripture. What are your beliefs grounded in, yourself?
     
  8. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Oh my, this makes no sense. Who is judging between God and Satan in this 'Heavenly Court'?

    Legal reasons? Do you mean, Satan has an injunction out against God? Please explain.


    Given the verses you quoted, I now understand where the confusion comes from. Briefly, this in not revelation from God:

    2 Peter is a forgery
    Revelation was rejected by the Church and not allowed into the NT for hundreds of years.
    Matthew is unreliable and talks about zombies walking amongst the living.

    All the above is written by anonymous non Jewish authors, who never even met Jesus, peace be upon him.
    Yes there are quotes that Jesus pbuh may have said and uttered, but to sift through what is legitimate from the falsehood is no easy task, especially given no originals survive.
     
  9. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    :/
     
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  10. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    I have done too much today. I will get back to you tomorrow. Hope you don't mind.
     
  11. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    np
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    How nice. Nevertheless, @Yohanan ben Yaaqov provided excellent information which you are free to ignore.
     
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  13. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Tail Wagger
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    Score 1 for the paid ministers! It reminds me of Micah 3:5 "(NIV) This is what the LORD says: "As for the prophets who lead my people astray, they proclaim ‘peace’ if they have something to eat, but prepare to wage war against anyone who refuses to feed them."

    Paying ministers is a stupid practice, and as Benjamin Franklin says "Never make your doctor your heir." It is no different with paying ministers to say whatever excites you.

    It also reminds me of this: Timothy 4:3 "(NIV) For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
     
  14. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    So in trying to better understand the Jewish position of Iblis, (Satan) I came across the following which does seem to support Satan being a actual being as the Qur'an teaches...

    https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/why-jews-cannot-accept-the-new-testament/

    "In 1 Chronicles 21:1, it states, “Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.”"

    "However, another passage in the Jewish Bible, 2 Samuel 24:1, states that God caused King David to count the Jewish people. “The anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He incited David against them to say, ‘Go number Israel…’”"

    So, who made David number Israel – Satan or God? The confusion is based on a misunderstanding of the word, “Satan.”

    "Unlike Christianity, Jewish Scriptures do not teach that Satan is a “fallen and rebellious angel.”[2] In fact, the first time that Satan appears in the Jewish Bible, the word refers to an angel sent by God to prevent Balaam, the non-Jewish prophet, from cursing the Jewish people. In fact, Balaam winds up blessing them. Definitely not a mission for an evil Satan!"

    "The Jewish Bible states, “God was very angry when he (Balaam) went, and the angel (מאלך) of the Lord stood in the road to oppose (לשטן) him…” [Numbers 22:22] In this verse, the Hebrew word for “oppose” is “l’satan” and it is clearly not referring to an angel who is rebelling against God’s will. Rather, it refers to a messenger designated to carry out His will. The literal meaning of the Hebrew word “malach – מאלך” is “messenger” although it is usually translated as “angel.”"

    "This interpretation is also consistent with the biblical account of Satan found in the book of Job. There we see that Satan has no free will of his own and is given permission by God to torment Job to test his loyalty to Him."

    "Thus, we see that Satan is a force, an angel, used by God to test mankind. Furthermore, we can understand the purpose of evil in this world and why the Jewish prophet Isaiah 45:7 states that God, “makes peace and creates evil (רע).” Contrary to Christianity’s viewpoint, which is similar to the one inherent in Greek mythology, Judaism does not regard Satan as a separate force that exists to oppose God."

    "These explanations, combined with a careful scrutiny of the original Hebrew, clarify the apparent contradiction in the passages cited above from Chronicles and Samuel – and they also demonstrate that there is no contradiction at all because Satan is an emissary sent by God who created him solely for His use in testing mankind."

    In Islam Iblis was the most knowledgeable amongst the Jinn, a creation of God made from smokeless fire who have freewill like mankind. He was a devout worshipper of God and allowed entry into the Heavenly Council. He was present when Adam pbuh was created, and though all the angels bowed in respect, Iblis refused to do so, seeing Adam pbuh to be inferior to him. As a result of his disobedience he was cast out and given reprieve until the Day of Judgement. He has no power over us unless we listen to his false and empty promises....

     
  15. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Satanist's have their deepest revelation about Satan being a God so it is disrespectful to them to expose it.

    However, yes, Satan is simply that part of God which doesn't favor the human race.
     
  16. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to his snake information, I feel sad for people who do not include scripture in their belief system. His answer is impossible to understand! For if it was just a snake, how did it talk to the woman. Couldn't, wouldn't, didn't. Without the scriptural information that satan was using this innocent animal as a cover, as a ventriloquist would, the account crashes and burns - as atheists so desire.
     
  17. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    I thought your post would be hard to answer since you have several comments. Unfortunately, it turns out that answering it is more than easy. Why? Well, if you reject the authority of several parts of the NT, there is no common ground to stand on, to answer with.

    All my statements are founded in scripture so that telling me that scripture is unacceptable to you when answering- disqualifies my answer before it is made.
    If you change your mind and want an answer on the questions you made here despite your later statements of rejection, let me know.
     
  18. Rival

    Rival Noachide
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    There is also a part in the Bible where a donkey talks and it certainly wasn't Satan.

    "And when the a s s saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the a s s with a staff. And the LORD opened the mouth of the a s s, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?" - Numbers 22:27-28.
     
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  19. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    I have inanimate objects out of which come music and human talk, animal sounds, etc. This is our technology.
    Jesus mentioned that stones would be made to speak if humans refused to:
    Luke 19:40:
    And he answering said to them, I say unto you, If these shall be silent, the stones will cry out. ​
    If God wants to make an animal say something, it will happen. In the case of the snake it was satan; that is why he is called the original serpent.
    Revelation 12:8-9 . . .. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. ​

    There is only one way to the truth and that is by means of holy scripture.

     
  20. Rival

    Rival Noachide
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    Just that some of us don't consider the Christian Testament scripture.
     
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