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Samson the Sinner, Why was He saved?

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
I'm curious what others think, especially from a Jewish perpective, as to why a profligate sinner like Samson could wind up in God's good graces.

It seems Samson not only broke ten commandments but probably made up a few and broke those as well. He disregarded his parents, married outside of Judaism, murdered, lied deceived, left his wife, committed adultery, to name a few. What made Samson special?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Ohn Bunyan wrote an excellent aricle on it here :- http://bunyan.classicauthors.net/JerusalemSaved/
(and I am aware that I am fulfilling this 'prophecy' in the Ask Michel thread...........
PetShopBoy88 said:
Why are most of your posts in the debate sections just you copying and pasting from web sites?
...........:eek:

michel said:
...........a short extract..

Samson, when he would pull down the Philistines temple, took hold of the two main pillars of it, and breaking them, down came the house. Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, and to destroy by converting grace, as well as by redeeming blood. Now sin swarms, and lieth by legions, and whole armies, in the souls of the biggest sinners, as in garrisons: wherefore the way, the most direct way to destroy it, is first to deal with such sinners by the word of his gospel, and by the merits of his passion.
For example, though I shall give you but a homely one: suppose a family to be troubled with vermin, and one or two of the family to be in chief the breeders, the way, the quickest way to clear that family, or at least to weaken the so swarming of those vermin, is, in the first place, to sweeten the skin, head, and clothes of the chief breeders; and then, though all the family should be apt to breed them, the number of them, and so the greatness of that plague there, will be the more impaired.
Why, there are some people that are in chief the devil`s sin-breeders in the towns and places where they live. The place, town, or family where they live, must needs be horribly verminous, as it were, eaten up with vermin. Now, let the Lord Jesus, in the first place, cleanse these great breeders, and there will be given a nip to those swarms of sins that used to be committed in such places throughout the town, house, or family, where such sin-breeding persons used to be.
I speak by experience: I was one of these verminous ones, one of these great sin-breeders; I infected all the youth of the town where I was born, with all manner of youthful vanities. The neighbours counted me so; my practice proved me so: wherefore Christ Jesus took me first, and taking me first, the contagion was much allayed all the town over. When God made me sigh, they would hearken, and enquiringly say, What is the matter with John? They also gave their various opinions of me: but, as I said, sin cooled, and failed, as to his full career. When I went out to seek the bread of life, some of them would follow, and the rest be put into a muse at home. Yea, almost the town, at first, at times would go out to hear at the place where I found good; yea, young and old for a while had some reformation on them; also some of them, perceiving that God had mercy upon me, came crying to him for mercy too.
But what need I give you an instance of poor I; I will come to Manasseh the king. So long as he was a ring-leading sinner, the great idolater, the chief for devilism, the whole land flowed with wickedness; for he "made them to sin," and do worse than the heathen that dwelt round about them, or that was cast out from before them: but when God converted him, the whole land was reformed. Down went the groves, the idols, and altars of Baal, and up went true religion in much of the power and purity of it. You will say, The king reformed by power. I answer, doubtless, and by example too; for people observe their leaders; as their fathers did, so did they; 2 Chron. xxxiii. 2.
This, therefore, is another reason why Jesus would have mercy offered in the first place to the biggest sinners, because that is the best way, if they receive it, most to weaken the kingdom of Satan, and to keep it poor and low.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
He wound up in God's good graces by calling on the Lord and killing Philistines.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
sandy whitelinger said:
I'm curious what others think, especially from a Jewish perpective, as to why a profligate sinner like Samson could wind up in God's good graces.

It seems Samson not only broke ten commandments but probably made up a few and broke those as well. He disregarded his parents, married outside of Judaism, murdered, lied deceived, left his wife, committed adultery, to name a few. What made Samson special?

he was a nazir, even before he was born G-d told his parents that this would be his role in life. In the end, after all that you have listed, he returned to G-d for aid to kill the philistines. When he died, he died serving G-d.

also, it should be noted, that if you look at pretty much every great leader in the history of Judaism you will find something interesting...none of them are perfect. Some say Moses had a speach impediment and one could argue that he had a short fuse, David was a womanizer...so was Solomon...Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery because they were jealous of him...

as you can see...Hashem does not require perfection from people, that is an impossibility.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
jewscout said:
he was a nazir, even before he was born G-d told his parents that this would be his role in life. In the end, after all that you have listed, he returned to G-d for aid to kill the philistines. When he died, he died serving G-d..

He returned to God numerous times and it was never shown that he repented only returned. So just why did God listen and respond to him?

jewscout said:
also, it should be noted, that if you look at pretty much every great leader in the history of Judaism you will find something interesting...none of them are perfect. Some say Moses had a speach impediment and one could argue that he had a short fuse, David was a womanizer...so was Solomon...Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery because they were jealous of him...

as you can see...Hashem does not require perfection from people, that is an impossibility.

Noted. Yet Samson's were a multitude of sins. It would seem that God requires at least some sort of good behavior from His children. Where was the evidence of this in Samson's life?
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
sandy whitelinger said:
He returned to God numerous times and it was never shown that he repented only returned. So just why did God listen and respond to him?

Noted. Yet Samson's were a multitude of sins. It would seem that God requires at least some sort of good behavior from His children. Where was the evidence of this in Samson's life?

I would guess that, like many other religious hero's throughout recorded history he was in God's good graces because he killed people at God's behest. Seems to be a pretty common theme amongst the Abrahamic religions, those who are held up in highest esteem are either those who kill others in the name of their religion, or are themselves killed in the name of their religion. In the case of Samson, we have, in effect, a suicide bomber (suicide pillar pusher lacks the same "ring"), killing himself and others at God's direction. He was both a killer of enemies and at the same time a martyr, double whammy on the esteem-o-meter.

B.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
I would guess that, like many other religious hero's throughout recorded history he was in God's good graces because he killed people at God's behest. Seems to be a pretty common theme amongst the Abrahamic religions, those who are held up in highest esteem are either those who kill others in the name of their religion, or are themselves killed in the name of their religion. In the case of Samson, we have, in effect, a suicide bomber (suicide pillar pusher lacks the same "ring"), killing himself and others at God's direction. He was both a killer of enemies and at the same time a martyr, double whammy on the esteem-o-meter.

B.

This being in the Biblical debate section could you please offer some Biblical text for asserting that God requires people to kill in order to be in His' good graces. If not, please refrain from this kind of speculation in this forum.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
sandy whitelinger said:
He returned to God numerous times and it was never shown that he repented only returned. So just why did God listen and respond to him?



Noted. Yet Samson's were a multitude of sins. It would seem that God requires at least some sort of good behavior from His children. Where was the evidence of this in Samson's life?

do not forget also that HaShem chose Samson to be a Nazir, a person who is meant to abstain from certain things and serve G-d. Samson had a specific mission...
Judges 13:3-5 said:
And the angel of HaShem appeared unto the woman, and said unto her: 'Behold now, thou art barren, and hast not borne; but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son. Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink no wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing. For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come upon his head; for the child shall be a Nazirite unto G-d from the womb; and he shall begin to save Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.'
this mission which he was chosen for, he did accomplish.

ultimately can we know what merits mercy or help in the eyes of G-d? Maybe all of Samson's ego and vanity, which he had a lot of, was ultimately placed there so that it could bring him low and humble him in the end that he might turn to the true source of his strength, HaShem, and fulfill his destiny.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
sandy whitelinger said:
This being in the Biblical debate section could you please offer some Biblical text for asserting that God requires people to kill in order to be in His' good graces. If not, please refrain from this kind of speculation in this forum.

Sigh,

Recall ye not the story of Gideon, one of the genuine heroes of the Old Testament? Judges chapters 6 - 8? Gideon translates as destroyer and mighty warrior. Was not Gideon called on to kill for God? Seems there was a pretty elaborate story about Gideon gathering together a large force that God pared down several times so that it would be clear that the victory would be attributed to God and not the large size of the forces gathered? And did not Gideon murder Zebah and Zalmunna following a battle?

Then there was Ehud, mentioned also in Judges at 3:12-4:1 who murdered King Eglon with a stealthily concealed double edged short sword, and later led his followers in a battle which resulted in the death of about 10,000 Moabite Soldiers. . .

Shamgar who killed 600 enemies of God's people with an ox goad, also found in Judges. . . .

Judah was supposed to have killed Jashub, then 1,000 men of Jashub's army (Mentioned in Genesis)

These are but a very few of the vast references to those held in high esteem that killed under the circumstances I alluded to in my earlier post. An exhaustive listing of both heroes and martyrs would likely take several pages. Is this enough evidence that I am not merely speculating Sandy or shall I give more examples?

B.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
jewscout said:
ultimately can we know what merits mercy or help in the eyes of G-d? Maybe all of Samson's ego and vanity, which he had a lot of, was ultimately placed there so that it could bring him low and humble him in the end that he might turn to the true source of his strength, HaShem, and fulfill his destiny.

It may be something simpler than that. I'll expound on what I think more after I hear what others have to say. I think (as a hint) that the answer can be found in Habakkuk.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
sandy whitelinger said:
I may be something simpler than that. I'll expound on what I think more after I hear what others have to say. I think (as a hint) that the answer can be found in Habakkuk.

oook i didn't realize there was a right answer here...

i think that the answer is plainly in the text dealing w/ Samson, it seems simple to me.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Sigh,

Recall ye not the story of Gideon, one of the genuine heroes of the Old Testament? Judges chapters 6 - 8? Gideon translates as destroyer and mighty warrior. Was not Gideon called on to kill for God? Seems there was a pretty elaborate story about Gideon gathering together a large force that God pared down several times so that it would be clear that the victory would be attributed to God and not the large size of the forces gathered? And did not Gideon murder Zebah and Zalmunna following a battle?

Then there was Ehud, mentioned also in Judges at 3:12-4:1 who murdered King Eglon with a stealthily concealed double edged short sword, and later led his followers in a battle which resulted in the death of about 10,000 Moabite Soldiers. . .

Shamgar who killed 600 enemies of God's people with an ox goad, also found in Judges. . . .

Judah was supposed to have killed Jashub, then 1,000 men of Jashub's army (Mentioned in Genesis)

These are but a very few of the vast references to those held in high esteem that killed under the circumstances I alluded to in my earlier post. An exhaustive listing of both heroes and martyrs would likely take several pages. Is this enough evidence that I am not merely speculating Sandy or shall I give more examples?

B.
There is not one scripture that states killing people is the way to salvation.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
jewscout said:
oook i didn't realize there was a right answer here...

i think that the answer is plainly in the text dealing w/ Samson, it seems simple to me.

I would also consider the book of Hebrews in the text dealing with Samson. It explains it quite simply in light of a scripture from Habakkuk.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
sandy whitelinger said:
I would also consider the book of Hebrews in the text dealing with Samson. It explains it quite simply in light of a scripture from Habakkuk.

well since Hebrews really has nothing to do w/ a jewish perspective on the question at hand i don't see how it would be relavent....
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
sandy whitelinger said:
I didn't think you would.:sarcastic

well you did ask for a jewish perspective didn't you?

i gave you one...i think it is pretty clear from the text in Judges that HaShem was favorable to Samson, even through all of his indiscretions, because he had a purpose...fighting the philistines...which he did, alot.

as i pointed out before, we don't know what merits mercy or help in the eyes of G-d...and while we are expected to live a certain life, it is evident in the biblical text that you do not have to be perfect...i mean, david had some guy essentially wacked so he could get w/ his wife! And his bloodline is that of the Moshiach...or what of Lot who committed incest w/ his daughters...his incestious blood runs through that of David and Solomon and will run in the Moshiach...

who's to say that Samson's outcry at the very end and his desire to kill the Philistines, the role he was chosen for, wasn't so great and passionate to merit G-d's favor?
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
There is not one scripture that states killing people is the way to salvation.
That isn't what he said. He said it seems those held in high esteem with god were ones who killed or were killed in his name. He never said the bible states this is required for salvation.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
jewscout said:
well you did ask for a jewish perspective didn't you?

i gave you one...i think it is pretty clear from the text in Judges that HaShem was favorable to Samson, even through all of his indiscretions, because he had a purpose...fighting the philistines...which he did, alot.

as i pointed out before, we don't know what merits mercy or help in the eyes of G-d...and while we are expected to live a certain life, it is evident in the biblical text that you do not have to be perfect...i mean, david had some guy essentially wacked so he could get w/ his wife! And his bloodline is that of the Moshiach...or what of Lot who committed incest w/ his daughters...his incestious blood runs through that of David and Solomon and will run in the Moshiach...

who's to say that Samson's outcry at the very end and his desire to kill the Philistines, the role he was chosen for, wasn't so great and passionate to merit G-d's favor?

It is obvious that Samson was favoured, was it only because he was chosen? David suffered consequences for his indiscretions and was repentent. Is there any evidence of Samson's repentance other that his favor with God?

By the way I've never implied perfection was a requirement for favor with God. Redemption allows for imperfection. I'm wondering what were Samson's redeeming qualities.
 
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