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Same Faith As Yours?

Discussion in 'Nontrinitarian DIR' started by Zhakir, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Zhakir

    Zhakir Peace&Tolerance

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    Peace be unto all.
    In the past when i was a Sunni Muslim, i questioned the concept of intercession and i believed that it is ultimately harmful to a society to believe that people can do whatever bad thing/sin/crime they like, Sunni Muslims around me had similar beliefe -derived from many hadith books- diferring from one to another,and many times totally contradicting each other, it's called " Muhammad's intercession" or prayers to God to let Muslims out of Hell fire, and get them to the Garden.I chose to believe in the weakest form of intercession where it's claimed that Allah will cause Muhammad to pray to him to get those -whom Allah wants to save- out of hell.
    At that time i was debateing Christians who belived in salvation on exactly the same grounds i would debate a Sunni Muslim, in fact the same word "Shafa'a" used in hadith for the prophet Muhammad is used for prophet Jesus in the Arabic Bible , Referring to the claimed role of these two prophet in saving sinners who committed evil in this life. One of my debate are saved here in RF.
    http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/83636-died-our-sins.html
    From my Quran-based beliefs now i reject the whole concept of intercession and its hadith, and find no diffrence between the two teams.
    After my conversion i discovered that many churchs -which agree with Quran on rejecting trinity- also reject salvation and intercession, Closer to the Quran and Submission to God (Islam) more than the majority of the Muslim, And i started to learn about this religion and i'm very intrested in comminicating with its the followers. :)
    My first question
    How do you consider Biblical statements that contradict your belifes ?
    As for me my beliefs don't contradict the Quran, not a single verse of it, but contrict many hadith that are not authentic any way, i rejected them, and converted to Quranic Islam, or better say Islam (submission).

    Intercession Is A Way To Salvation?
    Quran 2:254 and other 150 verses reject the concept.
    O ye who believe! spend of that wherewith We have provided you ere a day come when there will be no trafficking, nor friendship, nor intercession. The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers
    Trinity? Son Of God?
    Quran 5:37
    They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from sosaying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve
    Quran 4:171
    O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no morethan) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and aspirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not"Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory beto Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things inthe heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs

    Regards. :)
     
    #1 Zhakir, Sep 27, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  2. Lucian

    Lucian Theologian

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    What churches do you mean?

    Here's a catechism which might be of interest: New Page 1
     
  3. Zhakir

    Zhakir Peace&Tolerance

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    Thank you for the link
    Nontrinitarian churches i mean, can i know the answer for my question?
    How do you consider Biblical statements that contradict your belifes ?
     
  4. Lucian

    Lucian Theologian

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    Well I don't know exactly what you mean, but in general the Bible is not a full revelation, not something that dropped out of the sky, as is claimed of the Quran, and even by some of the Bible. For example, the earth is not flat with a dome over it (as the Genesis claims). The Trinity doctrine does not compose a God that is a father, a son and a mother (as the Quran claims). Faith should not only be based on a book or books written by men, but on the truth that we face in life.
     
  5. Zhakir

    Zhakir Peace&Tolerance

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    Thank you for your answer :eek:, I'm glad to hear this, we are really so close then.
    BTW:Quran doesn't claim that trinity is composed of Marry, it only says that some people worship her and worship other monks and religious figures.[see Quran9:31]
    I guess my second question would be, why even considering books with errors to be any important or holy? In other words, do you believe God wants us to search for truth in books "full of doubt" if could say? IsGod responsible for sending guiding books on earth ?
    I appreciate patience.
     
  6. Lucian

    Lucian Theologian

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    I do believe that God wants us to search for the truth, but not only from books, but also in life itself, which is also full of doubt. The Bible does teach many important truths, mostly done by Jesus. And some things that are written are not exactly errors, but more how the world was seen back then, and in that way they tell a certain kind of truth. This is where Exegetics becomes important.

    The message in the Gospels is very simple, but also quite difficult: love your neighbors as yourself, and God above all. Do to others as you would want them to do to you. One could even say that these are the highest truths. I think if there was a full revelation of everything possible in a book (like a Theory of Everything), then the book would probably look different from the books that are in existence nowadays.
     
  7. stlekee

    stlekee Fool for Wisdom

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  8. nocturnalavalonian

    nocturnalavalonian Seeker of Knowledge

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    As a Unitarian Christian, I view the scriptures as inspired by God but written by people, and therefore subject to all the errors and biases of their human authors. For that reason I see the Bible as useful but not inerrant. The most important part for me is Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, as told in the Gospel of St. Matthew, as that is what I try to live my life by.
     
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