Salvation, when?

[Mystic-als]

I was reading about Jesus and his calling in life.
So I wondered. When we make a desision to follow him are we "saved" at that moment or is it when we get baptised?

I used to think it's when I made the choice. But seeing that God only called Jesus "son" after Jesus' baptism it must only be after baptism.
I'm not trying to debate the issue. I just want different opinions. If you can please give me some scripture or why you think that way.

 

[Elvendon]

In the Bible, there seems to be a definate and deliberate dichotamy between the baptism of water and the baptism of the spirit. Baptism of water is symbolic of repentance, while that of spirit is symbolic of being accepted and being "called" by God. In my view, both are needed to be "saved" - without a baptism of water a person is not freed from their sins, without a baptism of the spirit the baptism of water is an empty gesture.

In my view, "baptism" needn't manifest itself in the ritual we know as Christians - the baptism of water can be your tears for your sins, while a baptism of spirit can be any experience of union with the divine.

 

[James the Persian]

In my view nobody is saved in this life. We are only able to begin to run the race. If we persevere to the end then we will be saved, otherwise not. It is perfectly possible to apostasize, though I would never call this losing salvation as you cannot lose what you never had. There is no one point in earthly life when someone can say, 'I am saved'.

James

 

[Mystic-als]

Thats something I was thinking but not in those words. Thank you JamesThePersian. That helps with the argument of "once saved, always saved" or "can you lose your salvation"

 

[sojourner]

I believe that all humanity has already been saved through the Christ-event. We cannot save ourselves through belief, through baptism, through any other human action. God saves whom God saves. To "lose salvation" implies that salvation was "gained" by us in the first place.

 

[michel]

In my view, "baptism" needn't manifest itself in the ritual we know as Christians - the baptism of water can be your tears for your sins, while a baptism of spirit can be any experience of union with the divine.

I agree; the baptism seems to have lost a lot of it's importance (in my mind) with what I hope is a growing understanding of Christianity.

Salvation, IMO, can only be gained when God looks at your heart, and ticks the 'Pass' box.

 

[lunamoth]

With respect to the next life i agree with Soj: we are already saved. The 'work' has been done for us.

But salvation is not just for the next life. More importantly it is for this life. The love commandments are to love God and to love each other. When we practice these commandments we participate in God's cycle of love and we are saving each other and ourselves.

The reason His yoke is easy and His burden light is because He gave us each other to help and love one another.

7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[b] into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. (1 john 4)

This sums up my religion.

 

[sojourner]

Frubals to you for that post, Luna. Right on!

 

[nutshell]

It always blows me away when Christians downplay the importance of baptism. Did you all forget that Jesus himself was baptised to "fulfill all righteousness?"

 

[lunamoth]

It always blows me away when Christians downplay the importance of baptism. Did you all forget that Jesus himself was baptised to "fulfill all righteousness?"

Is it the baptism itself or what baptism points to that is important?

luna

 

[nutshell]

Is it the baptism itself or what baptism points to that is important?

luna

It's what baptism represents: The desire to do all God has asked us to.

 

[lunamoth]

It's what baptism represents: The desire to do all God has asked us to.

So, I don't think anyone is downplaying baptism. Those of us who baptize know this is an outer sign of the inner reality.

 

[Super Universe]

Do you think God will allow an man who chose evil and wickedness into His house simply because the man was baptized?

You are never saved until you reach paradise and it is not the next step. There are many schoolhouses for you to go through.

Lucifer was an angel, one who should know better, and he will surely not be saved.

Nutshell: Do you think Jesus would not have been 'saved' if He chose not to be baptized?

Do not put your faith into rituals. What do they mean if there is no change in your heart? They mean nothing.

 

[nutshell]

Do you think God will allow an man who chose evil and wickedness into His house simply because the man was baptized?

You are never saved until you reach paradise and it is not the next step. There are many schoolhouses for you to go through.

Lucifer was an angel, one who should know better, and he will surely not be saved.

Nutshell: Do you think Jesus would not have been 'saved' if He chose not to be baptized?

Do not put your faith into rituals. What do they mean if there is no change in your heart? They mean nothing.

No salvation was necessary for Jesus because he was/is a perfect being. He was baptised to set an example and to (again) "fulfill all righteousness."

 

[sojourner]

No salvation was necessary for Jesus because he was/is a perfect being. He was baptised to set an example and to (again) "fulfill all righteousness."

So, now that all righteousness has been fulfilled in Jesus, what more is there for any of us to do? We can't "fulfill righteousness" if Jesus has already fulfilled it.

 

[sojourner]

Do not put your faith into rituals. What do they mean if there is no change in your heart? They mean nothing.

This is the old "the sacrament is ineffectual if performed in an unacceptable manner" argument. The flip side of the coin is that God acts and is manifest in the sacraments. The efficaciousness of the sacrament does not depend upon human intervention.

 

[nutshell]

So, now that all righteousness has been fulfilled in Jesus, what more is there for any of us to do? We can't "fulfill righteousness" if Jesus has already fulfilled it.

What more is there for any of us to do? You're kidding right? We are commanded to "be ye perfect." Christ set the perfect example for us and we must strive to do all that he did.

 

[Mystic-als]

It always blows me away when Christians downplay the importance of baptism. Did you all forget that Jesus himself was baptised to "fulfill all righteousness?"

...And you got this from?

 

[nutshell]

...And you got this from?

This little book I picked up called The New Testament.

 

[Mystic-als]

Ohhhh. Where in the little book does it say this?