1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured SALVATION BY THE SABBATH.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by alex2165, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. alex2165

    alex2165 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Ratings:
    +1
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jeremiah 17.21-27
    21.This says the Lord: 'Take heed for yourselves and do not carry any load on the Sabbath day, or bring anything in through the gates of Jerusalem.

    22.And you shall not bring a load out of your houses on the Sabbath Day, nor do any work, but keep the Sabbath Day holy as I commanded your forefathers.'

    23.Yet they did not listen or incline their ears, but stiffened their neck in order not to listen or take correction.

    24.But it will come about, if you listen attentively to Me', declares the Lord, 'To bring no load in through the gates of this city on the Sabbath Day, but to keep the Sabbath Day holy by doing no work on it,

    25.then there will come in through the gates of this city kings and princes sitting on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they and their princes, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and this city will be inhabited forever.

    26.They will come in from the cities of Judah and from the environs (vicinity) of Jerusalem, from the land of Benjamin, from the lowland, from the hill country, and from the Negev, bringing burnt offerings, sacrifices, grain offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of thanksgiving to the House of the Lord.

    27.But if you do not listen to Me to keep the Sabbath Day holy, by not carrying a load and coming in through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath Day, then I shall kindle a fire in its gates, and it will devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and not be quenched.'


    This passage of Jeremiah quite surprised me. These Words of GOD had been given to Jeremiah in order that He will declare them to the people of Jerusalem, because GOD was ready to unleash the Babylonian invasion on His people for their evil deeds and idol-worshiping.

    But what really surprised me in this passage is that the Lord GOD in order to save Judah, the last standing remnant of His people Israel, asked them to obey and observe only one Commandment out of many.

    Usually GOD asked His people to stop worship idols and stop injustice, deceit, lies, bloodshed, and turn to Him. But this particular time the Lord GOD asked His people only to fulfill one single Commandment, and if they do obey this Commandment they will be saved and no disaster will come on them.

    And even more surprising that the Lord GOD chose only the Sabbath Commandment out of all others. Why GOD chose only Sabbath to save His people from approaching disaster?

    The Sabbath is actually a 4th Commandment, the first Commandment according to Words of Christ is to love your GOD with all your heart and with all your soul.

    But despite this fact the Lord chose the Sabbath as condition to save Judah from Babylonian invasion.

    Does the Sabbath is more important than the Love for GOD? Probably not. But if take a look at 10 Commandments, the Sabbath Commandment perhaps looks much more simpler that the rest of other Commandments.

    Indeed, how hard to observe and fulfill the Sabbath Day? Just do not do any work on this Day, eat, drink, have holy convocation, praise the Lord and relax, what could be better and easier than that?

    Concerning other Commandments, they are not so easy, because they required much higher moral and spiritual standards and quite not compatible with our human nature, and because of it they are much more difficult to fulfill. May be this is why the Lord GOD chose the Sabbath Day for Judah to save them from destruction.

    But besides this point there is another issue. The issue is about GOD'S great mercy and His compassion and love. GOD knew that absolutely nothing will turn back His people, no any Law, no any Commandment, no numerous warning or threats, but He still tried to give them the very last chance, giving them the most easiest and simplest Commandment of them all in order to save them.

    And if Judeans would fulfill this only Commandment of Sabbath Day:

    25."then there will come in through the gates of this city kings and princes sitting on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they and their princes, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and this city will be inhabited forever.

    26.They will come in from the cities of Judah and from the environs (vicinity) of Jerusalem, from the land of Benjamin, from the lowland, from the hill country, and from the Negev, bringing burnt offerings, sacrifices, grain offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of thanksgiving to the House of the Lord."

    Does Sabbath still relevant today? I am certain it is relevant today and forever!
     
  2. Lain

    Lain An Intervallic Time Traveler

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,244
    Ratings:
    +847
    Religion:
    The One, Holy, Universal, and Apostolic Religion
    I agree, and I keep this Commandment. Concerning the Law from Psalm 18 (LXX/Vulgate):

    "The law of the Lord is unspotted, converting souls: the testimony of the Lord is faithful, giving wisdom to little ones.
    The justices of the Lord are right, rejoicing hearts: the commandment of the Lord is lightsome, enlightening the eyes.
    The fear of the Lord is holy, enduring for ever and ever: the judgments of the Lord are true, justified in themselves.
    More to be desired than gold and many precious stones: and sweeter than honey and the honeycomb.
    "
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. alex2165

    alex2165 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Ratings:
    +1
    Religion:
    Christian
    GOD bless you Lain.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,205
    Ratings:
    +4,958
    Religion:
    Christian
    No, not for Christians.

    The Sabbath was part of the Mosaic Law.... if you feel compelled to obey one of its laws, then you should obey all of the them. And circumcision was a big one, but in Acts of the Apostles 15, the Apostles determined that circumcision was not required. Only some “necessary” things / “following requirements”. (Vss. 28,29)

    So, beyond the “necessary requirements“ and the ones which legislate loving others (like the 10 Commandments), nothing else from those Mosaic laws were compulsory.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Lain

    Lain An Intervallic Time Traveler

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,244
    Ratings:
    +847
    Religion:
    The One, Holy, Universal, and Apostolic Religion
    Sabbath is part of the 10C. I suppose then it legislates loving others and is compulsory.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2020
    Messages:
    4,465
    Ratings:
    +848
    Religion:
    Christian
    Those "necessary" things were things that were necessary to allow the Israelite Christians who kept the written Law to fellowship with the Gentile Christians who did not keep the written Law. It was a big problem in those days as this passage tells us. (Gel 2:11-13)
    Those things were not "necessary" for all Christians for all time to remain Christians.
    Unfortunately the wisdom of the JW leaders has turned those things into laws to be obeyed when the whole idea is that the Law in written code is gone.
    And they have extended what Acts 15 says to include blood transfusions and now writes about the wisdom of not having blood transfusions to save lives.
     
    #6 Brian2, Nov 25, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  7. Sedim Haba

    Sedim Haba Senile Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2021
    Messages:
    59
    Ratings:
    +36
    Religion:
    Karaite / Ebionite
    Yes, but since you are Christian, what day is your Sabbath?

    AFAIK only Seventh Day Adventists and Seventh Day Baptists worship on Saturday as we do.
    (well, not EXACTLY as we do, our shabbat begins just before sundown Friday)
     
  8. alex2165

    alex2165 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Ratings:
    +1
    Religion:
    Christian
    Sabbath is not only part of Mosaic Law, it is a part of all humanity.


    Sabbath Day was established long before the Law of Moses, right after GOD created Adam on the 6th day. So how come it became only part of the Law? Where was no Law when GOD created Adam.


    GOD blessed and sanctified the 7th Day after He created the world. For whom He blessed and sanctified the Sabbath Day?


    Answer this. Does Jesus Christ observe the Sabbath Day?


    Why then those who call themselves "Christians" do not follow their Teacher and are not observing the Sabbath as He did? Is not the Christ taught to imitate Him in everything? Why when the Sabbath was dropped off?


    You wrote:

    "So, beyond the “necessary requirements“ and the ones which legislate loving others (like the 10 Commandments), nothing else from those Mosaic laws were compulsory."


    Actually all 10 Commandments are compulsory and not only for Christians, but for all humanity, because they are all Spiritual Commandments and Jesus Christ based His teachings firmly on these 10 Commandments.


    10 Commandments are the fundament, base, and essence of spirituality, and if a Christian does not have any of this Commandments in his/her soul, this person cannot be considered as Christian, because those who do not observe even one of 10 Commandments will be considered as a pagan worshiper.


    If a Christian have no spirituality of 10 Commandments, that person is not Christian.



    Concerning circumcision (which is not included in 10 Commandments), yes physical circumcision is not valid for Christians and for Gentiles in general, but there is another circumcision, the circumcision of the heart.


    Deuteronomy 10.16

    16."Circumcise the foreskin of your heart (Leviticus 26.41) (Deuteronomy 10.16, 30.6) (Jeremiah 4.4, 9.25-26) (Ezekiel 44.7.9) (To Romans 2.29) (To Colossians 2.11) (1Corinthians 7.19)"


    Jesus turned physical circumcision into spiritual one, just like He did with some other physical rituals of the Law of Moses.


    Physical circumcision of flesh indicated that a person became GOD person according to the physical commandments of the Covenant between GOD and His people Israel.


    Spiritual circumcision of the heart indicates the same thing, a person became GOD'S person according to the spiritual commandments of the Covenant that Jesus Christ separated from the physical commandments of the same Covenant.


    Spirituality always stands higher than physical matter.
     
  9. alex2165

    alex2165 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Ratings:
    +1
    Religion:
    Christian
    It does not matter, because each part of the world has its own time zone.


    As long as it a Seventh Day according to your local calendar, or Jewish calendar, that is the Sabbath Day.


    GOD bless.
     
  10. Sedim Haba

    Sedim Haba Senile Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2021
    Messages:
    59
    Ratings:
    +36
    Religion:
    Karaite / Ebionite
    I'm going to assume you mean Saturday, even though you don't say so explicitly.

    We Jews know what's the seventh day, as for 40 years in the wilderness,
    mana fell for six days and not on the seventh. We KNOW it in our bones.

    Of course it's local time, every Jewish calendar gives times for multiple time zones,
    and these times change week to week throughout the year.

    Shalom
     
  11. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    13,316
    Ratings:
    +11,435
    Religion:
    Humanist
    It is a day the same as all others, apart from that my children are off work, which means we can get to see them. But that's the same with Saturday (assuming a Christian sabbath on a Sunday)
    Since I've retired, I avoid weekends for travel - if I can.

    Shops don't open until later (which can be a nuisance) but gives the workers a lie in.

    Oh, and there's usually sport on the box
     
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2020
    Messages:
    4,465
    Ratings:
    +848
    Religion:
    Christian
    I don't think you can judge someone as a Christian or not by the days they see as Sabbaths or how they keep them.
    Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
    Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes a special day does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.…
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    36,694
    Ratings:
    +17,878
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Within Judaism, absolutely, as it is a mandate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2019
    Messages:
    460
    Ratings:
    +172
    Religion:
    Assemblies of Yahweh
    Hi Hockeycowboy. Paul told us that "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping Yahweh's commands is what counts." (1 Corinthians 7:19) so what you are saying is untrue. The Jews argued that one had to shed some blood for their own sins through circumcision. This is false. It's Yahshua's precious blood that atones for our sins. But all the other commandments are still apllicable, including the seventh day Sabbath.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again, they are people who are overworked working seven day weeks, whose physical and mental health are in particularly bad shape, in places like India. People that don't have a Sabbath to rest physically or get spiritual strength for the week day trials. Is this Yahweh's will? Having kept the Sabbath all my life, I know that there is no way Yahweh would give up the Sabbath, or change the day from Saturday to Sunday, which there is no evidence for in the Bible.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    36,694
    Ratings:
    +17,878
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Observing Shabbat is only mandatory for Jews, not for Gentiles.

    Secondly, why would the latter observe Shabbat but not, foe example, the numerous kosher Laws as also found in Torah? IOW, one is under Jewish Law or they're not, and here are the 613 Commandments:

    Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) (jewfaq.org)
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    3,913
    Ratings:
    +774
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    I think it is. And I think it would be good for people to keep it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. alex2165

    alex2165 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Ratings:
    +1
    Religion:
    Christian
    Saturday or Sabbath does not make any difference.


    Saturday is basically translation from Hebrew of Sabbath.


    You wrote:

    "We Jews know what's the seventh day, as for 40 years in the wilderness,
    mana fell for six days and not on the seventh. We KNOW it in our bones."


    Yes manna fell for six days and not on the Sabbath, and some holidays included Passover were conducted on the 7th Day, and 7th year was observe as Sabbatical year, and many more things and special occasions relate to the Saturday-Sabbath Day.


    But the meaning and point of the Sabbath is not in physical rituals and miracles, but purely in spiritual obedience and humbleness before the Lord, to submit yourself completely to GOD one time a week.


    Six days we work and live for ourselves, but in Sabbath-Saturday Day we live for GOD and worship Him on this blessed and consecrated Day.


    Sabbath-Saturday has much more spiritual essence in it than just physical ritualistic observance.


    For this reason Jesus Christ purposely provoked leaders of the Jews by healing people on the Sabbath Days, to show them that not the physical Letter of the Law matters, but the spiritual condition of the Law matters, and in this case it is the Sabbath Day designed to humble souls of the people in prayer and worship, to dedicate this special one Day of the week to GOD only.


    "I desire mercy (spiritual matter) and not sacrifice (physical matter)."
     
  18. alex2165

    alex2165 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Ratings:
    +1
    Religion:
    Christian
    If all the days of the week are the same for you, then you should not worry about the Sabbath-Saturday Day.


    Those who cannot read do not have books at home and do not go to libraries.


    And those who cannot read the clock, time is not the essence.
     
  19. alex2165

    alex2165 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Ratings:
    +1
    Religion:
    Christian
    In this case we are not have to follow anything from the Law nor Jesus, we can do and observe whatever we want, because no one have the right to judge us.


    These passages from Romans and Colossians can applied to everybody, and even to you, if I assume that you now starting judging me.


    Let not take statements of the Bible from it context and apply them to a issue with which you are disagreed with.


    I do not judge no one, but I have right here to express my opinion and my point of you like you do.


    So, let not use passages of the Bible inappropriately but apply then it is appropriate.
     
  20. Sedim Haba

    Sedim Haba Senile Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2021
    Messages:
    59
    Ratings:
    +36
    Religion:
    Karaite / Ebionite
    Actually, there is a difference. Shabbat is from Hebrew and translates to 'He Rested'

    Saturday (like all day-names) comes from Pagan deities, in this case the Roman god 'Saturn'.

    It's well known that Christians observe Sunday as their day of rest, going so far as making
    'Blue Laws' prohibiting businesses from being open on Sundays that still is in force in some
    places.

    But why Sunday, the first day? There's no biblical justification at all for this. So I will tell you.

    All of the first Christians were also Jews. As such, they would be observing Jewish Shabbat
    on the seventh day, and one of the restrictions for Shabbat is how far one may travel.
    It's not far. These Jewish disciples were sometimes farther apart than allowed travel.
    So, they would meet on Sunday, for fellowship. Not Shabbat worship, fellowship.
    The non-Jewish members who eventually joined would only be coming to these Sunday
    meetings. This suited them fine, as Sunday and not Saturday was a Roman holy day.
    When Christianity spread farther into Rome, with fewer and fewer Jews, this became
    the norm as the reason for using Sunday was lost. Plus with more and more rank & file
    Christians being Romans, well, it fit right into their culture. And Paul and leaders like
    him did nothing to correct this.

    That is the explanation from a Jewish disciple of Yeshua, one who rejects Paul.
    So you will probably not agree, and that's to be expected. But I stand with Torah.
    Shalom
     
Loading...