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Sabarimala Temple

Shrew

Active Member
I read that there is a debate if women should be allowed to enter this temple of god Ayyappa in Kerala.
Does someone know more?
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
I read that there is a debate if women should be allowed to enter this temple of god Ayyappa in Kerala.
Does someone know more?

I'm no expert but I heard this too. AFAIK Ayyapan is the son of two male gods, Vishnu and Shiva, so he wasn't born from a woman and therefore won't tolerate being worshipped by women.

No idea whether this makes sense. I read that no meat-eater / "Caucasian" is allowed to enter the temple of Lord Jagganath, and that during their menstruation period women are not allowed to enter Hindu temples at all.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Lord Ayyappa is said to be celibate, hence no women in his temple. However, my temple has a large sanctum for him, including a replica of the 18 Holy Steps, and there are plenty of female devotees. His iconography usually shows him seated with a band around his knees. The Wiki article calls this a 'yogic posture', which I think is not entirely correct, though he is an ascetic like his father, Shiva; rather, I think it denotes control of sexuality. I have a brass murti of him in this pose.

220px-Ayyapan.jpg
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I'm no expert but I heard this too. AFAIK Ayyapan is the son of two male gods, Vishnu and Shiva, so he wasn't born from a woman and therefore won't tolerate being worshipped by women.

No idea whether this makes sense. I read that no meat-eater / "Caucasian" is allowed to enter the temple of Lord Jagganath, and that during their menstruation period women are not allowed to enter Hindu temples at all.

This is accurate. Women under 10, or over 50 are allowed. Just those in menstruating age weren't allowed. Most temples have some sort of restrictions, perhaps moreso as you go south in India. Non-Hindus are barred in places. In some TN temples, men have to go shirtless. Only the priests are allowed in the central sanctums, an most South India temples. Some have blood bans, so not just menstrual blood, but any blood like an open sore. It gets complicated, and Sabarimala became an issue, but the politics in the state of Kerala is really complicated. There are Marxist, Christian, and Muslim lobby groups as well.

There are lots of POVs on Sabrimala, all the way from the temple stance non government interference entirely, to the more Marxist everything open to everyone. It's also a place to watch as some precedents have now been set.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
I read that there is a debate if women should be allowed to enter this temple of god Ayyappa in Kerala.
Does someone know more?


It is the only temple where women between 10 and 50 were not allowed. I think the idea behind the ban on women maybe to promote the virtues of celibacy and self-discipline amongst men through a strenuous regimen, at least for forty days.

An idea is prevailing that a few days can be reserved exclusively for women devotees.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
No idea whether this makes sense. I read that no meat-eater / "Caucasian" is allowed to enter the temple of Lord Jagganath, and that during their menstruation period women are not allowed to enter Hindu temples at all.
I do not know the current rules but perhaps it is that non-Hindus are not allowed in Jagannatha temple. The rules about menstruation are there only in a minuscule number of temples, that too generally in South India, and not in all temples. What happens is that the women themselves avoid going to temples during that time.

As for Sabarimala, most Hindus would be in favor of women's entry to the temple. What is happening in Kerala is pure politics.
 
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ajay0

Well-Known Member
No idea whether this makes sense. I read that no meat-eater / "Caucasian" is allowed to enter the temple of Lord Jagganath, and that during their menstruation period women are not allowed to enter Hindu temples at all.

Caucasians or foreigners were also strictly not allowed to enter temples in India , even if they had adopted Hinduism as their religion.

Annie Besant was not able to enter a Hindu temple inspite of her knowledge of Hinduism and its rituals, and inspite of her pleading with Hindu priests and administrators of those times. Such was the case with Sister Nivedita as well.

The Arya Samaj led by Swami Dayananda Saraswati played a crucial reformist role in allowing the entry of foreign Hindus to Hindu temples, showing that the Vedas did not discriminate against people on the matters of caste, creed, gender, race or nationality.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I read that no meat-eater / "Caucasian" is allowed to enter the temple of Lord Jagganath

If this is the temple I am thinking of, the ban on foreigners was imposed due to tourists behaving very badly and disrespectfully during a big festival. They were acting as if it were a museum or other tourist attraction instead of a house of worship.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
If this is the temple I am thinking of, the ban on foreigners was imposed due to tourists behaving very badly and disrespectfully during a big festival. They were acting as if it were a museum or other tourist attraction instead of a house of worship.
Yes that's common. But a couple of more points on the topic.

Firstly, this isn't something unique to Hinduism. The Mormon temples, for example, so I've read, only allow about 15% of the Mormon membership into their temples, and nobody not Mormon. I'm sure there are lots of areas of Vatican City that are out of bounds. Most religions have some sort of dress codes, gender separation, or requirements for entrance to their houses of worship. At gurdwaras you have to cover your head.

Secondly, at the core of the debate at Sabrimala, and elsewhere is who is in charge. Is it the local board. or ownership, or is it the government? So it's separation of religion and state, or not. Hinduism has been singled out in this regard. Can you imagine the outcry if the state government, national government, or Supreme Court made demands of mosques or churches?
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes that's common. But a couple of more points on the topic.

Firstly, this isn't something unique to Hinduism. The Mormon temples, for example, so I've read, only allow about 15% of the Mormon membership into their temples, and nobody not Mormon. I'm sure there are lots of areas of Vatican City that are out of bounds. Most religions have some sort of dress codes, gender separation, or requirements for entrance to their houses of worship. At gurdwaras you have to cover your head.

I didn't know that about Mormon temples! I know what you mean about dress codes. Despite a large sign on the temple door, and a couple more here and there, requiring proper dress (no shorts, no torn jeans, no short skirts, no revealing clothing, etc.) I see grown men in shorts and ratty jeans all the time. I even see younger women in dress that is more suited to the mall or a day out with the girls. I'm not judging, who am I to do so? just making an observation.

Secondly, at the core of the debate at Sabrimala, and elsewhere is who is in charge. Is it the local board. or ownership, or is it the government? So it's separation of religion and state, or not. Hinduism has been singled out in this regard. Can you imagine the outcry if the state government, national government, or Supreme Court made demands of mosques or churches?

I shudder to think. I have some thoughts about the Sabrimala issue that I won't really go into, so as not to stir the pot, but let's just say that my opinions are well over the line into the Republic of Traditionland.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I

I shudder to think. I have some thoughts about the Sabrimala issue that I won't really go into, so as not to stir the pot, but let's just say that my opinions are well over the line into the Republic of Traditionland.

Besides, Kerala is polarized, which may be putting it mildly. That said, last night we celebrated daughter's graduation at The Dosa Shop, a new South Indian place here, and the owner is from Kerala. Very friendly place, my new favorite go to hole in the wall restaurant. He told us about New year's Eve, and he stayed open to 2 AM, because people kept coming, and coming. So I told him about how the Chinese restaurant owner in my small home town would open at any time of the day for a party of 10 or more. You just had to knock on his door really loudly. 4 AM and this guy opens.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Congratulations on your daughter's graduation.

Yeah, I've been seeing bits an pieces of the strife in Kerala, not to mention the flooding. Very sad. The temple mounted a charity for the flood victims. I don't remember how much they collected.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Kerala politics has alternated between Communists and Congress (Dynasty). They are well-entrenched. Credit that to the good work done by Communist Party. The Hindu organization RSS (Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangha) does not have much support in spite of Hindus making 55% of the population. The Communist Party and RSS are at logger-heads in some parts of Kerala and killings are a frequent occurrence. Sabarimala entry has become totally politicized and polarized.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev, Morari Bapu and the Prajapita Brahmakumaris have supported the Supreme Court's progressive decision allowing women to enter the Sabarimala temple.

Prowling tigers, logic & soul – modern spiritual gurus’ take on Supreme Court's Sabarimala Temple verdict | India News

Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev has stated that it is in consideration of the forest-like region with tigers where Shabarimala stands that women were earlier prohibited from entering the temple during earlier times. Now since it is a well-developed area with adequate security, measures prohibiting women from entering the temple can be now considered unnecessary.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is the only spiritual organisation in the world led, administered and taught by women, with centers in India and all over the world, teaching free 7 day courses on meditation and spiritual philosophy.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes that's common. But a couple of more points on the topic.

Firstly, this isn't something unique to Hinduism. The Mormon temples, for example, so I've read, only allow about 15% of the Mormon membership into their temples, and nobody not Mormon. I'm sure there are lots of areas of Vatican City that are out of bounds. Most religions have some sort of dress codes, gender separation, or requirements for entrance to their houses of worship. At gurdwaras you have to cover your head.

Secondly, at the core of the debate at Sabrimala, and elsewhere is who is in charge. Is it the local board. or ownership, or is it the government? So it's separation of religion and state, or not. Hinduism has been singled out in this regard. Can you imagine the outcry if the state government, national government, or Supreme Court made demands of mosques or churches?
Actually they did. The court desegregated several Sufi sites where men and women were seperated. There was not much outcry. In India, the power are greater than in US or Canada.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Actually they did. The court desegregated several Sufi sites where men and women were seperated. There was not much outcry. In India, the power are greater than in US or Canada.

So is the government also collecting the donations to mosques and putting it in government coffers like they do with Hindu temples?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So is the government also collecting the donations to mosques and putting it in government coffers like they do with Hindu temples?
No temple in Bengal has this. Is this province dependent? Probably some dalit rifhts politics going on in some states.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
State governments, yes. Are the temples in Bengal all run by private families, or by boards?
Private boards.
By the way, all Muslim religious property is under govt control through state and national waqf boards.
Central Wakf Council - Wikipedia

The Council is headed by a Chairperson, who is the Union Minister in charge of Wakfs and there are maximum 20 other members, appointed by Government of India as stipulated in the Wakf Act.
 
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