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Russians fire upon Ukrainian ships in Kerch Strait near Black Sea
- Thread starter Stevicus
- Start date
Why does a bully pick on someone?
Straining on an Obama gnat and swallowing a Trump camel?
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
How would I know? If Kiev is lying and Russia isn't, then then I guess it would be defending their territory? If Russia is the one lying, then it's probably a show of power.
Different reasons.
And so I wondered what precipitated this.
It seems to be related to an ongoing border dispute, along with the treatment of ethnic Russians within Ukraine, and the forced removal of a pro-Russian government in Kiev in 2014. Also, a careful study of ancient Russian history might also reveal some answers.
Yes! Yes it was!
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
I agree conflict is not good, however Putins & his thugs need to understand the following.
LAW WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES IS ADVISE.
LAW WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES IS ADVISE.
Stanyon
WWMRD?
The U.S. had been meddling in the Ukraine for about seventy years, long before Obama was even born but what has been described as the "most obvious coup in history" happened under his watch.
How would this help? The UN could not intervene without Security Council approval. Russia has permanent member status on the Council and could vote against any action the UN would take.
Obama was born in 1961. 70 years earlier was 1891.
A fully independent Ukraine emerged only late in the 20th century, after long periods of successive domination by Poland-Lithuania, Russia, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.). Ukraine had experienced a brief period of independence in 1918–20, but portions of western Ukraine were ruled by Poland, Romania, and Czechoslovakia in the period between the two World Wars, and Ukraine thereafter became part of the Soviet Union as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (S.S.R.).
Ukraine | History, Geography, People, & Language
It goes back even further than that, as Russian history is often said to have begun with Kievan Rus, even before Moscow even existed. (Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia)
The history of Russia and Ukraine is intertwined and related to each other. The Mongols also had a presence in the region for a few centuries. And, as you mention, Poland-Lithuania had their hooks in the region as well, even if the Russians considered it their territory.
Another historical/linguistic tidbit: The name "Ukraine" is derived from the Russian phrase "U kraina," which literally means "on the edge" or "on the border." They've also been called "Little Russians," although they don't like that term. Their languages are quite similar to each other, but different enough to be considered separate, mainly due to centuries of political separation.
Moscow became a power center when the Mongols entrusted the Muscovite princes to be their tax collectors in the Slavic regions, which gave them a great deal of power which they continued to wield after the Mongol Empire collapsed. The Russians slowly but surely gained much of what the Mongol Empire had in Central Asia, as well as took back lost territories in the European part (which included Ukraine, which was taken back from Poland-Lithuania). Territorial evolution of Russia - Wikipedia
Crimea also had a separate history, which at one time was the Khanate of Crimea, never properly a part of Ukraine. The Turks also had a presence in the region around Crimea and southern Ukraine. The Russians eventually took that back as well, and by the 19th century, the Russian Empire extended from Poland to the Far East. They also had designs on Manchuria and Korea, but were thwarted. They also wanted to take back Constantinople for Orthodox Christianity (a long term goal spanning centuries), but the British intervention in the Crimean War prevented that from happening.
It's a rather long and complicated history which I can only lightly touch upon here, but it obviously runs far deeper than oversimplified explanations of the Russians just being a bunch of "bullies."
An analogous situation might be the British in Northern Ireland. That's also complicated, but the equivalent would be for the U.S. government to declare Britain a bunch of "bullies" and demanding that they withdraw from Northern Ireland. That would be unwarranted and unwelcome interference, just as outside interference in the Russia-Ukraine situation is also unwarranted and unwelcome. Let them handle their own disputes without outside interference or intervention. They're both Slavic peoples. They're both Orthodox, so they don't even have any religious schisms, unlike Britain and Ireland.
Leave them alone to handle it.
Yes, those poor bullied Ukrainian neo-Nazis that Israel (and America of course) are arming. Oopsie!
Rights groups demand Israel stop arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine
ok...this Russophobia has to end...tell Trump his European ally will demand to stop sanctions
I'm sure someone will tell him. I'd tell him myself, but he never returns my calls.
But yes, I agree that the Russophobia should end. I'm not unsympathetic to the Ukrainians either, but I think they both should sit down and iron out their differences, come up with a compromise. But in order to do that, other powers need to stay out and refrain from interfering.
It's not really in Russia's interests to have a full-scale war with Ukraine, as the Ukrainians are not as weak or helpless as the West seems to think they are. Russia has a lot on its plate right now, and they likely can't afford to get bogged down in something like this. Similarly, the West has a lot of irons in the fire and wouldn't be able to afford to give Ukraine a blank check of support.
The only country that might benefit in a large-scale confrontation between the West and Russia would be China.