Ruach HaKodesh

[Onlooker]

What is the Ruach HaKodesh?
Is it similar to the Holy Spirit that Christians refer to?
Is it considered a separate entity as when it "departs" and goes back to heaven Ecc 7:7?
When it is with the Prophets of old, was it more of an occasional voice (cooing like a dove) or sounds (like samsons bell tones he heard) or was it a constant inspiration? Is it still present today?

 

[Levite]

What is the Ruach HaKodesh?
Is it similar to the Holy Spirit that Christians refer to?
Is it considered a separate entity as when it "departs" and goes back to heaven Ecc 7:7?
When it is with the Prophets of old, was it more of an occasional voice (cooing like a dove) or sounds (like samsons bell tones he heard) or was it a constant inspiration? Is it still present today?

It is not clear exactly how ruach hakodesh can manifest-- we think that it can manifest in various ways.

But no, it's not like the Holy Spirit. As I understand it, the Holy Spirit is a major part of God to Christians. But for us, ruach hakodesh isn't necessarily an integral part of God's being, but describes a state of being touched by revelation. Sometimes it describes the revelatory nature of a prophet's gift, but not always. Some people are described as having it for long periods. We think that for them, it might be like having a second inner voice, or a loud subconscious, or perhaps a particularly sharp dream-eye that is always open.

But for others, it may be like periodic experiences of the prophetic variety: visions, dreams, a vast flood of meta-sensory input, from which one must sort and sift meaning.

It probably varies from person to person in how it manifests. But it is not a separate entity, but a kind of experience.

 

[Onlooker]

It is not clear exactly how ruach hakodesh can manifest-- we think that it can manifest in various ways.

But no, it's not like the Holy Spirit. As I understand it, the Holy Spirit is a major part of God to Christians. But for us, ruach hakodesh isn't necessarily an integral part of God's being, but describes a state of being touched by revelation. Sometimes it describes the revelatory nature of a prophet's gift, but not always.
It probably varies from person to person in how it manifests. But it is not a separate entity, but a kind of experience.

It does sound like the "Holy Spirit" in the fact that it gives revelation/knowledge/prophecy (etc). I guess it is easier to think of a part of God that visits Man through this form verses a revelation that is either chemical/genetic/neurological/environmental (things that form our experiences) that is not "part of God".
In a way, with all the dimensions that we have to describe our universe (I have been told that 10 dimensions are available- by physicists that lose me in their conversations by the 2nd sentence), I can see how we may be describing the same thing. I am leaving a reference to the dimensional thing since I cant describe it but it does offer some potential common ground. ( I cant post a URL until I have 15 posts on this site, but the following address just needs a http then a www ---- .infoplease.com/cig/theories-universe/how-many-dimensions-there.html)
I guess, in the end, we both believe God created us and desired some communication with us. Despite our fallacies, He still tries.

 

[Onlooker]

My last post had a reference to a website that describes the different dimensions of this universe. My reason is to show that as knowledge increases about our world, our understanding of our Creator increases. Our God is at least one more dimension than the world He created (He has to be greater than His creation). So to describe God, which is impossible, you would use inadequate language simply because He is at least one dimension more than we are (how would you describe a 3 dimensional figure if you were a 2 dimensional stick figure on a piece of paper ). All this to say, is anything too complex for God?
With that answer, surely God can be our "revelation", "inspiration" and any other aspect attributed to the Holy Spirit while still being a "singular" God.

 

[Onlooker]

Obviously I have stumbled onto something the size of Mount Everest. I picked up a pebble on the foot of this "mountain" and will post this last post and keep studying.

Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Shema Yisrael YHWH Eloheinu YHWH Echad.

The last word "Echad", for a guy who speaks no Hebrew, apparently is pleural as "one bunch" containing many grapes. cf. Num. 13:23. Not singular entity as in yachad.
The first, obvious reading is unifying all the names of YHWH.
Deeper meanings are abundant and I guess the Kabbalah delves into that.
What I get out of reading (again, just a pebble) is that with the coming of the Messiah, there will be a marriage of the Shekina to the Messiah and therefore unify the three pillars of the Godhead, also linking the above and below worlds. ( I understand these 3 pillars are not the same as the Christians 3 parts of God).
Whatever the final truth is, I believe that God is the only One, and we simply cant understand Him.

 

[Levite]

Obviously I have stumbled onto something the size of Mount Everest. I picked up a pebble on the foot of this "mountain" and will post this last post and keep studying.

Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Shema Yisrael YHWH Eloheinu YHWH Echad.

The last word "Echad", for a guy who speaks no Hebrew, apparently is pleural as "one bunch" containing many grapes. cf. Num. 13:23. Not singular entity as in yachad.
The first, obvious reading is unifying all the names of YHWH.
Deeper meanings are abundant and I guess the Kabbalah delves into that.
What I get out of reading (again, just a pebble) is that with the coming of the Messiah, there will be a marriage of the Shekina to the Messiah and therefore unify the three pillars of the Godhead, also linking the above and below worlds. ( I understand these 3 pillars are not the same as the Christians 3 parts of God).
Whatever the final truth is, I believe that God is the only One, and we simply cant understand Him.

Echad means "one." Yachad means "alone" or "of itself." God is not defined as one bunch of something, but as one unified, singular something.

As for the "parts" of the Godhead, you are referring to Zoharic construction of God, which actually parses the Etz Chayim (Tree of Life), or the diagrammatic understanding of the different immanent emanations of God's power from Ein Sof (the Infinite) to aspects of Divine energy that tend to interact more in the created world. But though the Zohar speaks in parable, calling the parts by nicknames like Abba, Ima, Atik Yomin, Ze'er Anpin, and Shekhinah, this should not be understood to mean that God literally has separate and non-contiguous parts that somehow require more unification to be singular. Talking about "relating" or "marrying" one part to another is about how we experience the Divine, and how we are to instigate in our created world a beneficial merging of the divine energies that flow from God into Creation. But all those energies, though they come from different aspects of God, are part of the same whole thing, unbroken. Think of those energies a little like light. Full spectrum light appears to us to be white. If we break it up with a prism, we can see the different wavelengths manifest. But whether you're looking at the rainbow of a differentiated spectrum, or just at a flood of "white" light, you're looking at the same phenomenon, just in different ways.

You need to be careful not to be too literal with Kabbalah. Part of what makes mysticism difficult is that it speaks in parables, metaphors, hints, allusions, similies, and other kinds of imagery, in part to ensure that only those trained to understand do understand, and in part because it is attempting to define what is essentially indefinable.

 

[Onlooker]

Thanks for the reply. I found that this echad definition study has been used for many years in the "trinitarian" arguments. Interesting, but best left for those who actually speak the language.
I like to see the big picture then get down into the details. So, this is coming from a big picture point of view (at least my desire to understand the big picture).

God created the universe, God created man, God communicated with man.
Man created an environment that hindered the easy communication with his Creator.
God chose a "people" through Abraham. God, in His infinite (incomprehensible) wisdom had His people go through some trials by fire.
God wanted to talk to His "people", His "people" choose their leader Moses to be the "go between".
The priesthood became that go between for the majority of His "people". God occasionally had revelations/prophets with others, but overall, for the mass of "people", the priest and the tabernacle/temple duties became the communication.
After the temple destruction, the word of God is the primary communication.


Am I seeing the big picture?
Is God's Ruach HaKodesh still at work talking to us?
Or, are we here with his written words alone?
Or, are His written words full of His Ruach HaKodesh?

 

[Rakhel]

Am I seeing the big picture?
Is God's Ruach HaKodesh still at work talking to us?
Or, are we here with his written words alone?
Or, are His written words full of His Ruach HaKodesh?

I don't know how Levite is going to answer you, but my answer, and that of my husband's, to all 4 questions is a resounding "Yes."

Not trying to confuse you, and yes, this is the simplistic answer to your questions, but even the most learned Rabbis will tell you that they never stop studying and never stop questioning what they learn because they know there is more than one right answer.(At least, this is what I have heard)

 

[Levite]

Am I seeing the big picture?
Is God's Ruach HaKodesh still at work talking to us?
Or, are we here with his written words alone?
Or, are His written words full of His Ruach HaKodesh?

So, I think it pays to be precise in our terms and meanings. Generally, when we speak of Ruach HaKodesh, we mean an extremely high, prophetic level of revelation.

That kind of high-level revelation is something that we believe rarely comes to people. Although some folks in the Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) world will claim this rabbi or that rabbi has Ruach Hakodesh, it is almost certain that no one currently alive really has Ruach Hakodesh. Even the greatest sages of the past 300 years or so, such as the original Hasidic masters, probably didn't have Ruach Hakodesh, although it's possible that a couple of them might have had flashes of it.

However, this is not to say that we are alone, or that God does not speak to us, or that we no longer experience spiritual closeness to God. Absolutely not.

For one thing, as the Hasidic masters were often at pains to remind us, we say of God melo kol ha'aretz kevodo (the world entire is filled with His glory), and by this, ultimately, we mean that omnipresence cannot be underestimated. The Divine Presence surrounds us, every moment, every place. There is no distance from God.

God's Presence, the Talmud repeatedly teaches us, is manifest whenever we learn Torah, whenever we pray together, whenever we follow the commandments.

And one does not need Ruach Hakodesh to speak to God, no, nor even to hear God speak to one. Ruach Hakodesh implies not mere communication, but messages for the public, or the granting of special powers, or the doing of miracles. And this we do not really see anymore. But we all are capable of speaking to God, and many have experienced God's presence manifest to them in some way, or may even have heard the "soft, fine voice" (cf. 1 Kings 19:12). This is not Ruach Hakodesh, it is the product of a state we call deveikut (literally "clinging close"), which means a state of deep spiritual connection to the Divine Presence. Sometimes this state can occur spontaneously, but generally, we hold that it is the product of spiritual discipline, observance of the commandments, study of Torah, focus in prayer and meditation.

To strive to live, as much as possible, in a state of deveikut is one of the chief goals of Kabbalists and Hasidim.

But in any case, we are definitely not alone, and while Ruach Hakodesh per se may not be manifest among us so much, connection to God, revelation, and touching the Divine are absolutely still with us, every day.

 

[Onlooker]

Thanks again.
I am getting a better understanding of your description. It seems that for 2400 years that a true Ruach HaKodesh has not been documented (or agreed upon). But God's word and presence is with us through his word, our prayer, our works. We have God's presence everywhere.
Gods presence is like the "showbread", the bread of "presence". This resembles his face towards us all the time, I guess. What would the menorah represent in the tabernacle and temple?
Would that represent His spirit? Or does it signify something different?

 

[CMike]

Jews don't need a go between. We can and are supposed to pray directly to G-d.



Moses was in no way a divine being.

He is described simply as a humble man.

Thanks for the reply. I found that this echad definition study has been used for many years in the "trinitarian" arguments. Interesting, but best left for those who actually speak the language.
I like to see the big picture then get down into the details. So, this is coming from a big picture point of view (at least my desire to understand the big picture).

God created the universe, God created man, God communicated with man.
Man created an environment that hindered the easy communication with his Creator.
God chose a "people" through Abraham. God, in His infinite (incomprehensible) wisdom had His people go through some trials by fire.
God wanted to talk to His "people", His "people" choose their leader Moses to be the "go between".
The priesthood became that go between for the majority of His "people". God occasionally had revelations/prophets with others, but overall, for the mass of "people", the priest and the tabernacle/temple duties became the communication.
After the temple destruction, the word of God is the primary communication.


Am I seeing the big picture?
Is God's Ruach HaKodesh still at work talking to us?
Or, are we here with his written words alone?
Or, are His written words full of His Ruach HaKodesh?

 

[CMike]

Thanks again.
I am getting a better understanding of your description. It seems that for 2400 years that a true Ruach HaKodesh has not been documented (or agreed upon). But God's word and presence is with us through his word, our prayer, our works. We have God's presence everywhere.
Gods presence is like the "showbread", the bread of "presence". This resembles his face towards us all the time, I guess. What would the menorah represent in the tabernacle and temple?
Would that represent His spirit? Or does it signify something different?

We communicate directly with him. Him and him alone is a divine being. For a Jew to claim to be in any way to be a Devine being is the greatest of sins and a challenge to G-d.

There is no actual symbol of him that Jews worship.

The menorah is used to light candles. It has no other symbol.

 

[Flankerl]

You do realise that you are answering a two year old question and that the person asking the question has been gone for over a year?

 

[SimoneQuinn]

It is not clear exactly how ruach hakodesh can manifest-- we think that it can manifest in various ways.

But no, it's not like the Holy Spirit. As I understand it, the Holy Spirit is a major part of God to Christians. But for us, ruach hakodesh isn't necessarily an integral part of God's being, but describes a state of being touched by revelation. Sometimes it describes the revelatory nature of a prophet's gift, but not always. Some people are described as having it for long periods. We think that for them, it might be like having a second inner voice, or a loud subconscious, or perhaps a particularly sharp dream-eye that is always open.

But for others, it may be like periodic experiences of the prophetic variety: visions, dreams, a vast flood of meta-sensory input, from which one must sort and sift meaning.

It probably varies from person to person in how it manifests. But it is not a separate entity, but a kind of experience.

Levite, I wondered if I could talk to you in PM about this subject?

 

[Levite]

Levite, I wondered if I could talk to you in PM about this subject?

Sure, feel free. Anyone can always PM me.

 

[dantech]

I know this is an old thread, and some people might think I am crazy, but I can officially tell you that I have witnessed Ruach HaKodesh. I have spoken to Very spiritual people, twice in my life that have revealed to me amazing things. It is a bit personal so I rather not just publish it. However, if anyone would like to know the story or some parts of it, please don't hesitate to PM me.


From what these Tsadikim told me, Ruach HaKodesh is in no way prophecy. It is however like a 6th sense that allows them to see things that we regular people cannot see. I am still in contact with one of these 2 Rabbis and actually used his help lately. Go ahead and PM me if you would like to learn of a few stories I have had personally with these Rabbis.

 

[CMike]

It's not a seperate entity.

G-D has made it clear in numerous passages that there is only him and he is one.

Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)

You are my witness--the words of Hashem--and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you will know and believe in Me, and understand that I am He; before me nothing was created by a G-D, and after Me it shall not be (Isaiah 43:10)

... O Lord; no deeds can compare with Yours. All the nations You have made will come and worship before You, O Lord; they will bring glory to Your name. For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:8-10)

O Lord ...You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the Earth. You have made heaven and Earth. (Isaiah, 37:16)

... all kingdoms on Earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (Isaiah, 37:20)

This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides You, who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him. (Isaiah, 64:4)

For this is what the Lord says—He Who created the heavens, He is God; He Who fashioned and made the Earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—He says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other." (Isaiah, 45:18)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

...you may know there is no one like the Lord our God. (Exodus, 8:10)

O Lord... there is no god like You in heaven above or on Earth below... (1 Kings, 8:23; 2 Chronicles, 6:14)

Then Asa called to the Lord his God and said, "Lord, there is no one like You to help the powerless against the mighty..."(2 Chronicles, 14:11)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

There is no one like You, O Lord, and there is no god but You, as we have heard with our own ears. (1 Chronicles, 17:20; 2 Samuel, 7:22)

There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides You; there is no strength like our God. (1 Samuel, 2:2)

His wisdom is profound, His power is vast. Who has resisted Him and come out unscathed. (Job, 9:4)

For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:10)

Praise Him for His acts of power; praise Him for His surpassing greatness. (Psalms, 150:2)

You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the Earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship You. (Nehemiah, 9:6)

They will say of Me, "In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength."... (Isaiah, 45:24)

You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides Him there is no other. (Deuteronomy, 4:35)

 

[CMike]

Hello!

Hi