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Ruach Hakodesh vs Shekinah

Discussion in 'Judaism DIR' started by Marco19, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Marco19

    Marco19 Researcher

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    Shalom dear friends,

    Do you think that Holy Spirit & Shekinah are the same, so in a way they represent some aspects of the creator?

    Thanks in advance :)
     
  2. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    No, I don't think so.

    Ruach Hakodesh is not a "presence" of God, but an outreaching of shefa (God's energy), increasing the awareness and the spiritual connection of a person touched by it. It is divine in origin but impersonal.

    The Shechinah is a "presence" of God, the immanent aspect of the sefirah of Malchut (that is to say, of the emanation of God's omnipresence which is the most diffuse, least transcendant, and most connected to this created world). The Shechinah is an aspect of God's "self," and is personal; it does not "settle on" a person (flowing through them like the shefa of Ruach Hakodesh does), but can manifest in their area ("thickening" or "amplifying" as it were, the presence of God around them).
     
  3. Marco19

    Marco19 Researcher

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    Thanks Levite,

    Is it correct to say that the Shekinah is part of the ten Sephirot (because you related it to Malkhut)

    Another question about Shekinah... i wonder if it's still existed in this world, or it's gone/disappeared/demolished after the destruction of the temple?

    About Ruach Hakodesh, i'll read and ponder more, then ask if have some unclear points.

    Thank You :)
     
  4. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    The Shechinah is absolutely still in the picture insofar as God's immanent presence in the universe. God is always both immanent and transcendant, present within the universe and yet beyond it and above it. The Shechinah was present in the universe (and outside of it) since long before the Temple was built, and has never left, nor would she.

    The Shechinah is an aspect of God, a kind of presence of God's awareness in the created universe. All of God's aspects are linked to various of the Sefirot (most to more than one of the Sefirot); but because the Shechinah is considered to be the most "accessible" aspect of God's presence, it is usually linked to the Sefirah of Malchut, which is the most immanent of the Sefirot, representing the divine linkage to the created world.
     
  5. nyRednek

    nyRednek Unrepentant Masculist

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    Your opinions fall outside Judaism, and, in that sense, I'd appreciate that you kept them out of this DIR.
     
  6. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    Agreed. The linked thread/forum has little relevance to mainstream orthodox (small "o") Jewish thought or Kabbalah.
     
  7. xkatz

    xkatz Well-Known Member

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    I personally find the fact that you are advertising your forums and writings in this thread suspect. You have your own right to profess what you believe but please don't try to advertise yourself (especially when it attempts to link the 1997 Phoenix lights with Jewish qabbalah).
     
    #7 xkatz, Mar 29, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  8. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    I said orthodox with a small "o," which is literally to say, normative to the tradition (not a reference to movements in modern Judaism).

    And I already noted in a post elsewhere that my issue is not with your postulation of shin as ultimate root of the name Yishai, or with the linkage between ruach and Shechinah per se (although, technically, it is worth noting that the word ruach has been occasionally framed in the masculine in Biblical Hebrew-- vide Gesenius or BDB for references). My issues are with your acceptance of Christological readings, your use of Christian scripture, your use of support materials crafted by Christian missionaries, and your apparent willingness to read sacred text in light of UFO sightings.

    Those are the kinds of ideas that have no place in the Judaism DIR. Perhaps in the Messianic Judaism DIR, but not here.
     
  9. nyRednek

    nyRednek Unrepentant Masculist

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    Please stop trying to pass off whatever it is you believe as Jewish thought. Seriously, you're just confusing the Goyim and ******* off the Yehudim.
     
  10. yochai50

    yochai50 Member

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    To answer the OP, I'm not sure. For all practical purposes though, yes they are different. I've only heard of Ruach HaKodesh used in a personal way.

    To Levite, I have the following to say/ask.

    I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying 100%. Reclarify, what you mean by Ruach HaKodesh is impersonal? It says in the Gemara that when ten Jews doven together in a minyan, or even if they're in the same room, the Shechinah is settled on them. You can doven in a Minyan without feeling anything personal towards G-d at all. Ruach HaKodesh is always used referring to things in a "personal" sense as far as I've seen it. I therefor have to assume by impersonal, you mean it doesn't come from G-d as "directly". Not to seem chutzpadik or anything, but I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.
     
  11. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    First of all, let me just say that if one is davening (with or without a minyan) and not feeling anything personal towards God at all, I think there is a bigger problem than the theological nuances of divine energy. Prayer is supposed to be dialogue with the Creator of the Universe. I don't see how or why it should be done if one is feeling nothing personal towards God at all. Maybe I misunderstood what you're trying to say.

    But in any case, my position is that Shechinah is a manifestation of the Divine Presence. That when, for example, ten Jews daven together, or two Jews study Torah together, and the Shechinah is with them, that is the Indwelling Presence of Hashem making itself more manifest near them. It is an active action on God's part. And its presence doesn't necessarily confer any special abilities on the people to whom it is near: just holiness, and usually spiritual gratification, and perhaps joy.

    But Ruach Hakodesh is merely an intensification of the inflow of shefa to a particular individual, and probably an intensification of shefa through certain Sefirot in comparison to others. Sure, sometimes this can result as an active action on God's part, either in a kind of nevuah or as a kind of hashgachah pratit. But it can also be passive on God's part, a result of the spiritual potency of learned and righteous chasidim and tzadikim, who, through meditation and contemplation and study of Torah and Kabbalah, are able to draw more shefa to themselves. And this kind of indrawing of shefa can sometimes confer special abilities on those whom it touches; but it doesn't always have to do so.
     
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