Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Romans 2:2-4 presents a question, can you answer it?
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Romans 2:2-4, can you answer this question, (theistically?[.
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
exchemist
Veteran Member
It presents two. Which one do you mean?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Either one. They might go together, so both are presented.
exchemist
Veteran Member
OK. No, to both.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
The second one seems necessary, but either one.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Who is the second question referring to?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
The second question, is stating the nature of the 'goodness', so forth. It isn't theoretical. It doesn't mean anyone, it can't.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Man has already been judged. he got the death sentence. Therefore, the idea that one might be saved from death who practices sin is false.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Referring to? It is asking the people St Paul was addressing, of course, viz. Roman proto-Christians. And he is talking about God's patience and forgiveness.
What's the issue?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Gentiles were not given God's laws. They were given to the Jews only. But the Gentiles and Jews alike are all under the sentence of death.
So, what then serves the law?
So, what then serves the law?
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
In paradise, humans were similar to animals, in the sense of having natural instincts, designed for humans. What they did and how they acted was based on innate choices that was already made for them, by nature and instinct; choices of God. These blended them with nature.
With the tree of knowledge of good and evil, humans stopped acting naturally, and began to subjectively and objectively define each aspect of behavior as good or evil. This caused humans to lose contact with natural instinct; paradise was sealed. Without conscious instinct, humans had to outwardly find the laws of God, which became increasingly blended with laws of man; both objective and subjective. While simply being obedient to law of man, because it is both subjective and objective, was not sufficient to be justify before God; natural part of his creation.
For example, the social laws of PC are basically subjective. Obedience does require willpower and choice. However, these choices are based on humans conditioning, led by the whines of the neurotic. We may feel the need or pressure to go along to appease the conditioned pain, but this path, even if sincerely followed, will not lead you to where you think. It is not connected to natural law or to instinct. It is law of man based on ulterior motives that are not fully righteous or objective.
As an experiment for pet owners. Call your pet nasty names that are taboo to PC. However, do this with love and joy in your voice. The natural instinct of the pet will cause him/her to approach since they will not act on the words, but will act based on your welcoming feelings. Words are secondary when it comes to instinct. Now reverse this and call your pet endearing names, but with anger in your voice. Again the words are secondary to the intent of the heart. The pet will hesitate.
PC is not natural, since hate speech ignores the feelings, such as hate against Trump. This is not called hate speech. It will instead censor self serving sounds, even if done in comedy and laughter. This path leads you the wrong way, away from the paradise, even if following the herd seems subjectively righteous.
With the tree of knowledge of good and evil, humans stopped acting naturally, and began to subjectively and objectively define each aspect of behavior as good or evil. This caused humans to lose contact with natural instinct; paradise was sealed. Without conscious instinct, humans had to outwardly find the laws of God, which became increasingly blended with laws of man; both objective and subjective. While simply being obedient to law of man, because it is both subjective and objective, was not sufficient to be justify before God; natural part of his creation.
For example, the social laws of PC are basically subjective. Obedience does require willpower and choice. However, these choices are based on humans conditioning, led by the whines of the neurotic. We may feel the need or pressure to go along to appease the conditioned pain, but this path, even if sincerely followed, will not lead you to where you think. It is not connected to natural law or to instinct. It is law of man based on ulterior motives that are not fully righteous or objective.
As an experiment for pet owners. Call your pet nasty names that are taboo to PC. However, do this with love and joy in your voice. The natural instinct of the pet will cause him/her to approach since they will not act on the words, but will act based on your welcoming feelings. Words are secondary when it comes to instinct. Now reverse this and call your pet endearing names, but with anger in your voice. Again the words are secondary to the intent of the heart. The pet will hesitate.
PC is not natural, since hate speech ignores the feelings, such as hate against Trump. This is not called hate speech. It will instead censor self serving sounds, even if done in comedy and laughter. This path leads you the wrong way, away from the paradise, even if following the herd seems subjectively righteous.
exchemist
Veteran Member
All of which has precisely zero to do with this thread. But well done for not mentioning water, hydrogen bonds, liberals or the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
leov
Well-Known Member
Specifically directed to people of bad consciousness, evil nature who understand purpose of the law but their nature would not submit to rejecting evil that does not allow agape.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Romans 2:4
Is that Jesus, being referred, to?
Is that Jesus, being referred, to?
I think it is speaking of God, or more specifically God’s goodness.
Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
Romans 2:4
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Romans 2:3
Is talking about perception, of another, not deity,
Then,
Romans 2:4
Says 'or despiseth his...'
So, how are you deriving, that the patience so forth, is referring to God?
The patience etc, would be the person, [being despised, who has those attributes because of the religious belief.
Ie,
'Dlnt judge such and such, (person,
Don't despise his goodness(person,
Because the religion is atrributional to the goodness.
exchemist
Veteran Member
All you have to do is read the chapter in full and consider to whom this epistle was addressed.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Romans 2:3
is connected to
Romans 2:4
Romans 2:3
[Don't judge the bad, such and such[referring to another(person
Or
Romans 2:4
[Despise the goodness, [referring to another(person
Because
Romans 2:4
[The goodness is because of G-d.
Both the 'judging the bad', and, the 'despising the good, the patience and such', are referring to another person.
The 'patience ', so forth, is talking about another [person, not G-d.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Don't be ridiculous. The entire chapter is quite plainly talking about God's judgement (both condemnation and patience, and goodness etc), on the people he is writing to. There is no third person referred to, or implied, anywhere.