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Roman Catholic Church

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I’d like to know what your thoughts and experiences are regarding Catholicism.

I'm an American atheist who moved to a Catholic country almost nine years ago. Religion is much less toxic here than it was in the States. It's not nearly as politicized, nor does it try to intrude into the lives of unbelievers, and it doesn't scapegoat or persecute certain marginalized groups. Nobody's shouting "Sinner" or "Repent." I like it better.

Another thing I like about the Catholics is that back In the States, most liberal Christians I knew were Catholic.

Ritual and pageantry were mentioned, and this culture's religious celebrations are rich with that. Palm Sunday will upon us soon enough. On that day, there will be a re-enactment of Jesus' return to Jerusalem. Somebody gets to play Jesus and walk in a white robe down streets covered in alfalfa as a throng holding small palm fronds woven into shields and sword follow behind. My wife and I have participated just for the pageantry and ritual, and are welcome to do so.

Five days later, onn Good Friday, Jesus will drag a cross up the mountain passing various stations as Jesus is scorned and scourged, and two days later, on Easter, will be a passion play in the local Catholic church's courtyard, complete with Roman centurions and a crucifixion.

Contrast that with the alternative - Easter eggs and bunnies.

Christmas is the same. It's still a desert holiday here complete with camels, mangers and Magi, and each year, we see a re-enactment of Joseph and Mary looking for shelter to have the baby. Children playing the roles of adults knock from door-to-door, where they are turned away, until they arrive at a predesignated home, where at last they are welcomed in, and a celebration occurs in the streets - right outside our front door most years.

Contrast that with the North Pole holiday, which really has no Jesus at all in it, just Santa, Frosty, Rudolph, and the like - all iconography without the ritual or pageantry, unless you include the holiday shopping.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
@Carlita I sometimes get invited by my friend to her Episcopal church, and I'll go. I enjoy seeing something outside my usual frame of reference. I'm like you- I was raised irreligious. Agnostic.

I have come to appreciate the art and such of religions. I wish we had Buddhist temples here where I live that are like the ones in traditional cultures. I know Buddhism isn't fundamentally about that, but there is a psychological dimension. Plus, the icons and images of the Buddha can be used for merit- if one accepts such a thing. Especially in Mahayana Buddhism.

True. True. We have a Zen Vietnamese temple near me that has statues of The Buddha, of course, and bodisattvas etc. If I spoke Veitnamese I would know more. The nun and friend of the abbot there toured me around the temple and told me in broken English what the different boddhisatvas represent. Wr also did a short meditation and I ate lunch with her as she told me about her history and the history of the lineage she practices. It was beautful. Temples here are mostly on private property. Unless coming for worship or in some cases friends with the owner, they usually open the temple on holidays like the Opasatha (spelling) day and full moon worship.

I lean more towards Theravada because I learn more from the suttas than the suttas. I did read The Lotus Sutra and in part The Diamond and Heart Sutras. Suttacentral.com is a great site if youre into the suttas as well.

Do you know off hand if there are bodhisattvas that are focused on art? I know one thing I liked a out the Church is the different saints mirrored a lot of illnesses they had, interests, and devotions etc that followers learn from.

Oh. Also, the @name doesnt work for me. I just happened to reread the posts and saw it. Youd have to do a regular quote even if its just a word.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
I’ve attended mass a couple of times and absolutely loved it. I was born and raised Mormon, but admitted to myself I do not believe in its history and teachings. I left and never thought I’d find myself in any church again. I was (and probably still am) agnostic. That said, I’ve found myself at mass a couple times and it feels like real worship. I really enjoyed it and now I’m curious.

I’d like to know what your thoughts and experiences are regarding Catholocism. I’m looking for all thoughts, whether Catholic or not. Thank you.

Hi @Watchmen

Thank you for creating this thread, I enjoyed reading your own and others' thoughts.

I'm a Catholic and if you take a glance through my posting history, you'll find various references to different aspects of the Faith, which I have gone over in some depth and detail.

If there are any questions you'd like to ask about the Church, or seek clarification about with regards to our theology, please don't hesitate to drop me a message on the main forum or in private. I'd be more than happy to oblige.

:)
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
My thought, Watchmen, is I want you back in Mormonism. Please visit bookofmormoncentral.org . Check out a lot of knowwhy's and you should be on your way back or at least not disbelieving in Mormonism.
Huh? You don't believe in Mormonism. Why are you suggesting that Watchmen should?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I’ve attended mass a couple of times and absolutely loved it. I was born and raised Mormon, but admitted to myself I do not believe in its history and teachings. I left and never thought I’d find myself in any church again. I was (and probably still am) agnostic. That said, I’ve found myself at mass a couple times and it feels like real worship. I really enjoyed it and now I’m curious.

I’d like to know what your thoughts and experiences are regarding Catholocism. I’m looking for all thoughts, whether Catholic or not. Thank you.
I was raised in the Catholic church. My relatives are Catholic. My husband was also raised Catholic and was an alter boy during mass as a youth. I drifted away from Catholicism in my early twenties. In my late twenties, I converted to Mormonism. I met my husband who had also converted to Mormonism. We were married/sealed in the temple. A few years later, after being inactive Mormons, I was earnestly seeking God and looking for the "true church". I gave some thought to going back to the Catholic church...then I met the living Person of Jesus Christ, understood my need for a Savior, and was born again. My husband and I were saved on the same day. That day we realized the difference between religion and a saving personal relationship with the living God and knew we could never go back to Catholicism.
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
@Carlita saw your question earlier, but just got time to respond. That is a good question. I don't know which Bodhisattva you'd ask about art. I'll look into it later for you.

I know there was a midieval Japanese monk credited with the first Manga. Manga is used to teach Buddhist values in animation and that still persists some even in secular Japan. I don't even remember the monk's name off my head.

You chant guru for any monk or master like Milerepa. Om Sadhu. Or your school's founder of course.

Manjushri is probably safe to invoke for just about anything because he's the keeper of the Sangha and teaching. His Mantra is Om Ahra Pa Cha Na Dih in Chinese. The one I use for him.

Chinese Mantras were translated from the Sanskrit to have short easy syllables usually.
 
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Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
Suttacentral.com is a great site if youre into the suttas as well.

Yeah I'm always willing to look at Theravadan scripture and I like Bhikku Bodhi for being challenging in a good way. As I see it, Mahayana and Theravada should be as united as possible. We agree on over 90% of doctrine and both trace lineages to the Buddha's disciples.

In fact if you look at some of my Dharmic Religions DIR posts- I advocate for Buddhists, Jains, and Hindus coming together like we never have before. The world needs a united Dharmic front. It is suffering intensely in these times. It needs our shared values and kindness. That's actually why my religion is Dharmic/Buddhist.

I answered your Bodhisattva question, but now know for future reference a quote works better.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The bottom line, for me, is that I don't believe there is any one church that is "right" for everyone. A person can grow spiritually in many different religious settings. While I do believe there is such a thing as "absolute truth," I don't think God is going to punish any sincere seeker for not happening onto it. I think He knows what's in our hearts and is far less judgmental of us than we are of each other.

To Watchmen specifically: I think you and I have a long enough history that we understand one another pretty well. You know that I am definitely "not your average Mormon." There are things about the LDS Church I am not 100% comfortable with, but it's only been quite recently that I've been comfortable with not being comfortable with everything. A few weeks ago, my husband said to me, "You know, I think that an awful lot of religion (and he was speaking of all religions, including Mormonism) is man-made. But there are certain things I know to be true, and I know them to be true because God has taught me that they are." That's kind of how I feel. I believe everything about Mormonism that "God has taught me" -- not that "the Bible has taught me" or that "the Book of Mormon has taught me" or that "the General Authorities have taught me." And those things are all I need to believe. The rest may or may not be true, but I am only bound by my conscience to believe what God has taught me. I don't know if that makes sense or not.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
The root words are different in Hebrew and Greek ("abba" v "presbyteros"), but got meshed when translated into English.

Wow, seriously? The word for "father" is different in Hebrew than it is in Greek? Who would have suspected such a thing?

Hey, I just noticed that the word for "father" is different in English than it is in either Hebrew OR Greek. But does that matter to the message of the verse? No, of course not.

Whether you speak Hebrew, or Greek, or English, you should not give to man the respect that is due to God.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Wow, seriously? The word for "father" is different in Hebrew than it is in Greek? Who would have suspected such a thing?

Hey, I just noticed that the word for "father" is different in English than it is in either Hebrew OR Greek. But does that matter to the message of the verse? No, of course not.

Whether you speak Hebrew, or Greek, or English, you should not give to man the respect that is due to God.
Ya know, I go out of my way to explain something, and you return that which sarcasm and snarkiness. If that's the way you think is the right thing to do, I'd rather be talking with those whom are much more respectful and appreciative.

""Abba" is slang in Hebrew for "father", whereas "presbyteros" means "elder".
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Ya know, I go out of my way to explain something, and you return that which sarcasm and snarkiness. If that's the way you think is the right thing to do, I'd rather be talking with those whom are much more respectful and appreciative.

""Abba" is slang in Hebrew for "father", whereas "presbyteros" means "elder".

You didn't explain anything; you just said that the words for "father" are different in the Hebrew and Greek, and when they got translated to English, they got meshed together as "father." It seems self-obvious that the word for "father" in Greek would be translated as "father" in English, and the word for "father" in Hebrew has nothing to do with this verse.

The word for "father" in Greek is "pater" (Stong's 3962) and that is the Greek word used (twice) in Matthew 23:9, not "presbyteros."

matt 23:9 - Interlinear Bible Search

Respect is earned.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The word for "father" in Greek is "pater" (Stong's 3962) and that is the Greek word used (twice) in Matthew 23:9, not "presbyteros."
The word "father", as used in reference to a priest, comes from "presbyteros", not "pater" (Greek) or "abba" (Hebrew, which is also used in reference to God as also found in the N.T.).

Respect is earned.
Not for a Christian who is to act like one as the gospels direct. "Love one another" is not just a nice little suggestion that Jesus made, but then I don't get the impression that you really care much one way or the other.

Either way, we're done.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hi @Watchmen

Thank you for creating this thread, I enjoyed reading your own and others' thoughts.

I'm a Catholic and if you take a glance through my posting history, you'll find various references to different aspects of the Faith, which I have gone over in some depth and detail.

If there are any questions you'd like to ask about the Church, or seek clarification about with regards to our theology, please don't hesitate to drop me a message on the main forum or in private. I'd be more than happy to oblige.

:)
Thank you. A couple questions.

1. Is there a preferred “Catholic” Bible?

2. I love the downtown cathedral. It’s very ornate and is near my place of work. Is it OK to attend mass there, or should I attend the perish near my home (which I haven’t been to yet, and which is very plain and modern compared to the cathedral)?
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
My thought, Watchmen, is I want you back in Mormonism. Please visit bookofmormoncentral.org . Check out a lot of knowwhy's and you should be on your way back or at least not disbelieving in Mormonism.
Thanks, but that chapter is very much closed. I have no animosity towards the Mormon Church, but I’ll never be convinced of the legitimacy of Joseph Smith or The Book of Mormon. I wish you the best on your path.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
To Watchmen specifically: I think you and I have a long enough history that we understand one another pretty well. You know that I am definitely "not your average Mormon." There are things about the LDS Church I am not 100% comfortable with, but it's only been quite recently that I've been comfortable with not being comfortable with everything. A few weeks ago, my husband said to me, "You know, I think that an awful lot of religion (and he was speaking of all religions, including Mormonism) is man-made. But there are certain things I know to be true, and I know them to be true because God has taught me that they are." That's kind of how I feel. I believe everything about Mormonism that "God has taught me" -- not that "the Bible has taught me" or that "the Book of Mormon has taught me" or that "the General Authorities have taught me." And those things are all I need to believe. The rest may or may not be true, but I am only bound by my conscience to believe what God has taught me. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

Thank you, Katz. I think we think along the same lines for the most part. At this point I can say that God has not taught me that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and I suspect he never will.

It’s been interesting to dip my toes back into religion and spirituality. Coincidently, my daughter began attending a Protestant Church with her friends. Ugh!

As for my interest in Catholicism, it started last month when I attended a memorial mass for a deceased coworker. I had never been to a Catholic Church before, but I absolutely loved mass that day. I enjoyed the ritual, the simplicity of the process, and the depth of worship despite that simplicity. Wondering if this was just a one off experience I attended mass last weekend. I had the same experience. I have to admit it was tremendously wonderful to worship and mediate on my relationship with God without hearing layperson talks on Joseph Smith, The Book of Mormon, a living prophet, titithing, the Word of Wisdom and so on. Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to be critical of Mormons, but many sacrament meetings were a struggle as it felt we had drifted from worship and from Christ. Often, it seemed the Church was like the Pharisees of old, obsessed with the technicalities of the law rather than the richness of a relationship with God.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Thanks, but that chapter is very much closed. I have no animosity towards the Mormon Church, but I’ll never be convinced of the legitimacy of Joseph Smith or The Book of Mormon. I wish you the best on your path.
OK, good luck with the Catholic Church. I'm happy for all they're doing and wish you the best in it.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I don’t want to be critical of Mormons, but many sacrament meetings were a struggle as it felt we had drifted from worship and from Christ. Often, it seemed the Church was like the Pharisees of old, obsessed with the technicalities of the law rather than the richness of a relationship with God.
Honestly, I can't argue with you there.
 
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