Rise in Atheism / breaking down of a popular religion

[PoetPhilosopher]

Is a rise in atheism and a breaking down of some popular religion (think: Christianity) good or bad for society?

Percentage of Christians Drops in All U.S. Age Groups

And:

I make the case that it's good with the theory that with not everyone as part of a one religion, the amount of independent thought may be increasing. I don't necessarily see religious people as being most aligned with God, necessarily, because I cannot assert the intentions of said deity. There's a chance that if trying to, I may be able to feel such intentions in my heart, but they are not really knowledge based, more of a comforting feeling. And that's the furthest down the rabbit-hole I've gone on these comments.

And given that discussions such as this sometimes get a little frisky, you don't have to say it - I'll say it to myself:

 

[Sunstone]

Good thread idea! Thanks for it.

The easy answer is "both". While that might look like a cop out, I think it's the closest to the truth. Here, I am thinking about the millions of people whose take on Christianity inspires them in their efforts to treat others with decency, respect, kindness, and other humane values. I am also thinking of the millions of people whose take on Christianity seems to narrow their thinking and inflame their intolerance of people and groups not like themselves. Both groups are reduced by the rise of atheism (in so far as its rise is at the expense of Christianity). So, my answer to the OP is "both".

 

[Twilight Hue]

Is a rise in atheism and a breaking down of some popular religion (think: Christianity) good or bad for society?

Percentage of Christians Drops in All U.S. Age Groups

And:

View attachment 38654

I make the case that it's good with the theory that with not everyone as part of a one religion, the amount of independent thought may be increasing. I don't necessarily see religious people as being most aligned with God, necessarily, because I cannot assert the intentions of said deity. There's a chance that if trying to, I may be able to feel such intentions in my heart, but they are not really knowledge based, more of a comforting feeling. And that's the furthest down the rabbit-hole I've gone on these comments.

And given that discussions such as this sometimes get a little frisky, you don't have to say it - I'll say it to myself:

View attachment 38653

It's certainly encouraging to see that people are finally starting to wake up with the realization that there are/were just wearing rose colored glasses and living their lives in stained glass houses.

The only comment I would make would be instead of a rise in atheism, that more people are just simply returning to the point where they used to be before the hook of theistic religion was first introduced to them.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Is a rise in atheism and a breaking down of some popular religion (think: Christianity) good or bad for society?

Percentage of Christians Drops in All U.S. Age Groups

And:

View attachment 38654

I make the case that it's good with the theory that with not everyone as part of a one religion, the amount of independent thought may be increasing. I don't necessarily see religious people as being most aligned with God, necessarily, because I cannot assert the intentions of said deity. There's a chance that if trying to, I may be able to feel such intentions in my heart, but they are not really knowledge based, more of a comforting feeling. And that's the furthest down the rabbit-hole I've gone on these comments.

And given that discussions such as this sometimes get a little frisky, you don't have to say it - I'll say it to myself:

View attachment 38653

Bad

 

[HonestJoe]

Is a rise in atheism and a breaking down of some popular religion (think: Christianity) good or bad for society?

A rise in identifying as atheist. I'm not convinced there is a shift in what people actually believe if and when they actually think about it (which lots of people don't anyway). Similarly, people no longer identifying as Christian (or at least as a specific denomination) and no attending church regularly doesn't necessarily mean their fundamental beliefs have shifted. Religion isn't what you believe, it's what you choose to do as a consequence.

With that in mind, I wouldn't define these observations as specifically good or bad overall. There are clearly advantages and disadvantages of having dominant organised religion at the core of a society, with history demonstrating plenty of examples in both directions. And someone simply not believing in any gods or not following any particular religion in itself doesn't mean anything, it's what they do instead (or as well) that matters and that remains entirely open.

It's worth noting that the USA is somewhat behind the curve compared to other western nations on this, and though we should avoid the error of assuming any identified differences are necessarily the result of any single cause, it'd probably be possible to spot a range of good, bad and indifferent consequences of this social shift in those other countries.

 

[crossfire]

Is there any correlation between religious belief (or lack thereof) and criminal behavior?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Is there any correlation between religious belief (or lack thereof) and criminal behavior?

That's a tricky one.

People want to immediately say "no", but it's not that simple. There are small differences.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's a tricky one.

People want to immediately say "no", but it's not that simple. There are small differences.

Meh...comparing theism to atheism is mostly a waste of time.
Both encapsulate all sorts of different worldviews, and are umbrella terms.

I have more in common with some Buddhists than I do atheistic Satanists, yet that's the group I'd be in.

Now, are particular beliefs conducive to lawbreaking, etc? There'd have to be some correlation, hard to measure as it would be. Yet even then, context is so important...

(A homosexual man in various environments can be legally marriable or worthy of a death sentence, for example)

In short, I agree...it's a tricky one.

 

[Stevicus]

Is a rise in atheism and a breaking down of some popular religion (think: Christianity) good or bad for society?

Well, the decline of religion has been a noticeable trend these past several decades. Whether it's good or bad for society depends largely on how one defines "society."

In more concrete terms, I've often heard some people argue that back in past eras (when we were supposedly more God-fearing and moral), America was stronger, more hard-working, greater, but by moving away from religion, America itself has declined in numerous ways. I'm not lending any credence to that argument, but I've heard some people attempt to make the case.

I recall back when I was a kid, we'd often visit relatives scattered all over the country, including a lot of small towns full of God-fearing people where the town church is the most prominent structure. There's a certain stability and order to that which may appeal on a certain level. People feel more a part of their community, bond with their neighbors and have a sense of belonging that seems absent in the larger cities. The cities are seen as cesspools, dens of iniquity, where it's dog-eat-dog and "every man for himself."

 

[ChristineM]

Is there any correlation between religious belief (or lack thereof) and criminal behavior?

Yes.

I have seen statistics from various sources that indicate more religious prisoner's than expected compared to the general population and less atheist prisoners than would be expected from the general population

Atheists Now Make Up 0.1% of the Federal Prison Population

Atheism in prison - RationalWiki

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I honestly believe that it will lead to good. There may be some types of people who, when they make the switch to stop believing, and if they haven't thought much about reasons to be a moral, responsible, upstanding member of society beyond their religious teachings, they could use their lack of belief as a platform to decide they don't really need to worry about moral concerns anymore, don't need to worry about being selfish, etc. - basically become the type of person that theists are constantly complaining atheists MUST BE anyway. But I think that type would be the more rare - as someone switching out of religious belief has most likely contemplated quite a lot to get them to that point. Anyway - back on track - I feel that as more and more people leave behind religion, there will be more and more information out there about atheism, more and more acceptance, and more and more delving into those reason to be good and do well by your fellows in the world. We may become a world of people who are good to each other for goodness' sake... as opposed to doing so for "God's" sake or our own sake as we try to dodge "Hell."

 

[rational experiences]

A theist began their own life journey historically as against a natural and original spirituality, if you want to be honest. A very long time ago.

A theist was in fact against all conditions natural and ethical by personal group organized choice. Whereas natural as a human was living balanced not only in natural group organization, but also with Nature.

A theist was the group controller who took science and invention and then controlled civilization status and structures...and we never owned meeting places or group gatherings, for we naturally lived in those spiritually supported groups. As medical care and organized family/extended family care.

The came the attack on our life by science causes, artificial attack that took away the ability for a human mind, due to radiation heavy metal gas burning of our life and body. And we lost our nature and our spirituality. As the determined historical event, reason why science had to then identify and form a medical reason to obtain control back over a civilization that had become depraved by chemical imbalances.

That sort of real history that none of you are detailing or expressing as human reality.

The Temples of science and machination were demolished. New buildings named as Temple or Church was erected for human healing purposes, of mind, comfort and also personal family commitment. Structured by loving humans who in medical science history gave up their natural normal family unity life and did service to the community.

It is that history that was taken back by the scientists, whose elite control related to invention and what circumstance of gaining monetary benefits for group entitlement could achieve self.

Being where medical sciences lost its own historical service to the community and the condition of the Church was reordered, if you cared to use history in the context of how it was lived.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That's a tricky one.

People want to immediately say "no", but it's not that simple. There are small differences.

Evidence? There seems to be some that says that there are no differences in fact.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Evidence? There seems to be some that says that there are no differences in fact.

Okay. Evidence of what form of "criminal behavior" (I never used that term)?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Basically it's not a side I'd want to take though, claiming no difference, as any positive or negative in any facet of crime, could point to there being a difference.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In general I think it is neither good or bad to have such a decline, but the main thing might be how those who are used to some sort of religious belief will fare in comparison to those who have never had such. That is, would they miss such beliefs and would they not have that necessary to function as well as they might have done before. We know it isn't necessary, given the large numbers who seem to function as well as most with religious beliefs, and have as good a moral system as most, or even better, so it is all about what replaces any religious beliefs. It certainly isn't a free-for-all or nihilism as some seem to think.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Okay. Evidence of what form of "criminal behavior" (I never used that term)?

Well I'll have to go scouting for it, and you might too, but there seems to be evidence that being religious isn't going to make one less likely to commit crimes or be more moral.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Well I'll have to go scouting for it, and you might too, but there seems to be evidence that being religious isn't going to make one less likely to commit crimes or be more moral.

Okay, but keep in mind, my argument was only ever "it might affect society".

And I assumed you were arguing that there is no difference. Really to be no difference, the statistics of every crime between a religious person and non-religious would have to be a straight even 50/50.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Okay, but keep in mind, my argument was only ever "it might affect society".

And I assumed you were arguing that there is no difference. Really to be no difference, the statistics of every crime between a religious person and non-religious would have to be a straight even 50/50.

I think one might need to prove that the religious belief had indeed caused whatever rather than anything else though - correlation and all.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Good thread idea! Thanks for it.

The easy answer is "both". While that might look like a cop out, I think it's the closest to the truth. Here, I am thinking about the millions of people whose take on Christianity inspires them in their efforts to treat others with decency, respect, kindness, and other humane values. I am also thinking of the millions of people whose take on Christianity seems to narrow their thinking and inflame their intolerance of people and groups not like themselves. Both groups are reduced by the rise of atheism (in so far as its rise is at the expense of Christianity). So, my answer to the OP is "both".

I would second this.

I would also add that I know some folks that have used Christianity to overcome dangerous addictions. I have also read about Christianity giving hope and peace to inmates and those suffering mental and emotional disorders.

Also, while this wouldn't be impactful on society itself, I find a lot of inspiration in some of the mythology of Christianity. While I don't consider myself a Christian, the literature is rich in poetic symbolism that I find spiritually inspiring.