Righteousness

[IndigoChild5559]

No, we need to overhaul to it be based on compassion, empathy, rehabilitation, and not sinking to the level of the criminal - things that actually work and help to make a difference in the long run.

I felt this way too, when I was very young, and naive.

 

[Brian2]

If I did that, I'd leave my shopping carts where I parked because if I had such a job I would want to spend more time outside. But that can cause issues and is impolite. So, despite what I want, I consider the employee who may be delayed leaving for home having to round up stray carts.

You could also consider other shoppers who might have to move your trolley or might run into it in the middle of the car park.
That of course could mean more shopping trolley makers have a job and more car body workers have a job but it could also mean that insurance premiums go up or that there would be a lot of uninsured people driving around or that the roads would be full of dented cars.
It's best not to overthink these things.
We of course can all make the wrong decision with the best of intentions.
Maybe the Government should make shopping trolley laws that take the decision out of our hands unless we want the consequences ensured by security vision of the carpark.

 

[Brian2]

So what?
The what is we learned better than these men claiming to speak to god, and morality has advanced sense these men wrote in the name of their god, since the the Vatican became a political powerhouse, it advanced since the 99 Thesis, it's even advanced over the course of my lifetime (like smoking in public buildings being largely and mostly banned).

I hope we have advanced but I think not in some areas.
I think the Mosaic Law was also an advancement over other laws of the time.
God it seems did not want to make a complete overhaul of society with the Jewish nation, God was realistic and knows that we cannot take too much change at once and are likely to fall into old ways all too easily, which happened then and continues to happen now even with people who know what God wants of us.
And what does God want of us?
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

 

[Brian2]

Slavery is nothing like a contract. In a contract both parties must agree and enter it into willingly. And neither party has ownership over the other, and cannot do anything outside of that.contract or there are legal consequences for breach of contract.
Slavery is forced, and legally reinforced where it's been practiced.

Yes there are differences between slavery and regular employment for example which both parties agree to.
If someone sold themselves into service to a master because they were poor in Israel there was agreement on both sides and rules of treatment which were different for fellow Israelites than for foreign slaves.
Slavery does seem to have been more of an ownership thing in those days with the slave being seen as part of the person's source of income and of course with the responsibility and subsequent benefits of looking after the slave.
Women seem to have been treated differently and could be seen as enforced wives who came under similar regulations in treatment to protect the women from exploitation from the men,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but of course the whole thing seems to have been exploitation from our pov.
As I said the intent did not seem to be the transforming of society to the ultimate degree. God is more realistic than that.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't know exactly but He taught to love our neighbour and of equality of all, and even the latter is probably not taught explicitly. The truth believed in society has a way of infiltrating into all corners. In that way it is like the leaven in the doe that leavens the whole lump eventually.

Actually, he taught the inequality of people. He was quite clear that his message was directed to the Jews of the time. He made an exception, but the primary emphasis was NOT to all, but to a few.

He didn't speak against slavery anywhere.

 

[Brian2]

Actually, he taught the inequality of people. He was quite clear that his message was directed to the Jews of the time. He made an exception, but the primary emphasis was NOT to all, but to a few.

He didn't speak against slavery anywhere.

His immediate message was to the Jews yes but He taught the equality of all people and wanted His message to go to all people.
But yes I don't think He spoke against slavery explicitly anywhere.

 

[Polymath257]

If God was in favour slavery, why would He go to the trouble of delivering His people from Egypt? The celebration of Pesach is a celebration of freedom from slavery. In Christ, this celebration becomes a celebration of freedom from slavery to sin.

God didn't want his people in slavery. He didn't seem to care what happened to others.

 

[Polymath257]

His immediate message was to the Jews yes but He taught the equality of all people and wanted His message to go to all people.

Show a verse where he says that. I can show verses saying otherwise.

 

[Brian2]

God didn't want his people in slavery. He didn't seem to care what happened to others.

God did not do away with slavery. It probably even had social benefits in the day.
God did want His people to treat those in slavery well and not as the Egyptians had treated them however.

 

[WalterTrull]

He didn't seem to care what happened to others.

There are 'others'?

 

[Polymath257]

There are 'others'?

Than the Israelites? many.

 

[Polymath257]

God did not do away with slavery. It probably even had social benefits in the day.
God did want His people to treat those in slavery well and not as the Egyptians had treated them however.

Already, you are admitting to situational morality, not absolute morality.

So even with God, there is no such thing as objective morality. Glad we cleared that up.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As I said the intent did not seem to be the transforming of society to the ultimate degree. God is more realistic than that.

It just means his laws were not good or moral, and we would learn better ways as time went on.

I hope we have advanced but I think not in some areas.
I think the Mosaic Law was also an advancement over other laws of the time.
God it seems did not want to make a complete overhaul of society with the Jewish nation, God was realistic and knows that we cannot take too much change at once and are likely to fall into old ways all too easily, which happened then and continues to happen now even with people who know what God wants of us.
And what does God want of us?
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

God gave the law then and never updated it.

Maybe the Government should make shopping trolley laws that take the decision out of our hands unless we want the consequences ensured by security vision of the carpark.

Or people could just start being polite and considering others first instead of starting with "I."

It's best not to overthink these things.

If something doesn't hold up to thorough scrutiny then it's not really working. It shouldn't be shielded or protected with "don't overthink things." It's not overthinking things. It's an awareness that not all people like the same things or necessarily like or dislike the same things as me.

 

[1213]

Do you see a difference between the righteousness of man and the righteousness of God? Is there a difference between righteousness under the law, and righteousness under grace?

To my understanding, there is a difference.

I think righteousness is always the same, but people are probably always less righteous than God.

 

[Redemptionsong]

God didn't want his people in slavery. He didn't seem to care what happened to others.

It's nice to be the 'apple' of God's eye!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's nice to be the 'apple' of God's eye!

Which is apparently a curse to others. Like first born in Egypt and their parents. Or cursed by Jehovah because Abraham lied about his relationship with Sarah.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Which is apparently a curse to others. Like first born in Egypt and their parents. Or cursed by Jehovah because Abraham lied about his relationship with Sarah.

Were the Egyptians not given the opportunity to repent? I believe they were, but stubborness prevailed.

 

[Polymath257]

Were the Egyptians not given the opportunity to repent? I believe they were, but stubborness prevailed.

Irrelevant to those first born.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Irrelevant to those first born.

I'm not so sure. When you live under a pharaoh your life is in his hands. Egyptians looked to the pharaoh as a god. Egyptians were not going to blame their pharaoh for his decision to keep the Hebrews as slaves. It probably benefited the whole of Egyptian society for the slaves to continue to build their infrastructure.

The people suffered the same loss as their leader.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The people suffered the same loss as their leader.

Yeah. See, we've developed this concept called "collateral damage" sine the Tanakh was written, and the act of deliberately targeting children, and civilians would be considered a crime against humanity.

Were the Egyptians not given the opportunity to repent? I believe they were, but stubborness prevailed.

The conditions were presented to Pharaoh, not the people of Egypt. But they suffered anyways.