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Featured Righteousness

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    This is getting a little monotonous.

    1. You originally asked why we do not worship Melchezidek, etc...... instead of just Christ. You worship whoever you want but your going to have to answer for it to Christ. Verses to follow.

    Deuteronomy 10:20
    "You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve Him and cling to Him, and you shall swear by His name.

    Matthew 4:10
    "Away from me, Satan!" Jesus declared. "For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'"

    New Living Translation
    Jesus replied, "The Scriptures say, 'You must worship the LORD your God and serve only him.'"

    New International Version
    Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    Jesus is one of the three persons that make up the single being, God. Melchezidek isn't.


    2. You seem to suggest that we all have God in our hearts and are united with God. Verses to follow.

    Ezekiel 14:7
    "For anyone of the house of Israel or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire of Me for himself, I the LORD will be brought to answer him in My own person.

    Isaiah 59:2
    But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

    Romans 11:22
    Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off

    Ephesians 2:12
    remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world

    I could quote hundreds more just like those above. You need to view the bible as a unified and consistent whole instead of doing some kind of exegetical vivisection on individual parts.
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    i agree. this is getting monotonous.

    deut 10:20 uses the strong's H3068 form of Lord; which isn't equivalent to your next verse.

    God is a spirit and we are to worship in Spirit.

    Numbers 23:19
    God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?


    the kingdom of God comes from within; where in is my Lord.

    8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

    “The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God’s eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.” - Meister Eckhart

    jesus served his Lord and God.

    he who wishes to be greatest must be servant to all because I AM that i am.

    and the 2nd is like the first because again the ALL is in all. thus thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy own soul, or own lord.

    the verse doesn't say Jesus is God. it says God sent Jesus. God is omnipresent. God doesn't come and go like Jesus because God is eternally NOW.

    Rev 10:6


    melchizedek and hermes trismegistus are believed to be one and the same. hermes trismegistus first taught from the three come the all, or all in all; which is the same as I AM that i am.


    maybe this will help you to understand the omnipresence of God

    1 Corinthians 3:16
    Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

    1 Corinthians 6:19
    Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,


    only God is good; so says Jesus. thus the source of all that is good in a person comes from the Sprit of God that dwells in the heart, and the throne of judgement.

    Luke 6:45
    The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

    James 4:5
    Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?

    Romans 8:9
    9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.


    you and your god are at odds, divided against one another. you see your god as far away and separate from self but that isn't what the bible teaches.

    Jeremiah 23:23-24
    "Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off? "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD.

    the bible nor Jesus advocated idolatry to any thing begotten/created/formed like self, or other self.

    Isaiah expresses without a doubt that idolatry is the abomination; which causes desolation in ch 66. had you known at what hour I was coming you would have stayed awake. your house is left to you desolate.

    Psalm 46:10
    He says, "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."

    can be understood as.........

    Psalm 46:10
    "Be silent, and know that I AM God: I will be exalted among all people, i will be exalted in the dust of the body"

    Namaste
     
    #42 Fool, Aug 31, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  3. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    What does any of that have to do with Melchezidek? Have I claimed God is material? Have I claimed we shouldn't worship in spirit? I have no idea what your claiming.


    What on Earth are you talking about? You sound educated enough to make a good argument but instead of doing so you just kind of ramble from one thing to another without showing how their relevant.

    Did I claim Jesus disobeyed the father?

    I do not know how anyone could lower himself more than to go from being a occupant of the throne of God to being beaten and hung on a cross.

    Did I say anything about mistreating our neighbor? Your like a verse of the day book. Just random verses one after another.

    I did not use it to show Jesus is God (but he is), I used it to show that it is HE whom we must know not Melchezidek. Christ died for my sins not Melchezidek. Now is a chronological term, omnipresence is a locational quality.

    Where God is, is not relevant to whether we have been born again, and joined together with him. Righteousness is unrelated to omnipresence.

    If your verses actually applied to the subject under discussion I would look them up. You didn't even link this one. I don't have the time to do your work and mine. If you go back you will notice I virtually always both quote and link any verse I supply.


    In thirteen thousand debates that is the strangest sentence I have ever seen posted. In 30 years of studying theology and history I have never heard the words hermes trismegistus mentioned in any context. Your into some really fringe stuff. I guess it takes all types to fill up the internet. What relevance does the representation of the syncretic combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth have to do with anything I have said or Christianity its self?

    The omnipresence of God is unrelated with our union with him through the sacrifice of Christ. No one is a Christian just because they and God both happen to exist at a particular point in space. Your confusing colocation with unity.

    Your rambling too much. Let me ask a simple targeted question.

    If Hell is eternal and an actual place does God exist in Hell?
     
    #43 1robin, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    God would be a hypocrite; if he required a sacrifice. It is written, Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.. Again Isaiah 66 is a testament of what God thinks of sacrifice.


    the point is that God dwells in Melchizedek; whom was called Lord.

    in exodus 3:14 that is the name of God. it's actually a verb. in exodus 3:15 the word Lord is used; which sounds similar to the word used in 3:14.



    jesus is not the exclusive son of God, nor is he the only one that was called Lord, or High Priest, or King of Peace. neither was he the only one with the Holy Spirit because God's Spirit is omnipresent.
     
  5. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    That verse concerns what he expects of us. It says nothing about what God plans on doing. Are you denying that the chief cornerstone of mainstream Christianity for the last 2000 years has been the sacrifice of Christ? Or it's historical reliability?


    I have never said the spirit of God was not in Melchezidek. Since God is omnipresent that doesn't make Melchezidek anything special.

    For pity's sake Exodus 3:15 says:

    "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.'


    These verses were in response to Moses asking God what name he should use to indicate who it was that sent him to deliver the Hebrews from Egypt. they have nothing to do with Melchezidek.

    This is a ridiculous argument given the silly name of "sons by the tons". It is usually an argument made by ignorant Muslims not whatever fringe belief system you prescribe to.

    Yes, many people are called a son of God but there is only one true son of God. That is why Christ's claim to be THE son of God was viewed as blasphemy at his trial. The people who considered his claim blasphemy considered themselves sons of God but they knew Christ was talking about something unique.

    Consider:
    John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

    That is not true of any other person who ever lived.

    John 1:14- "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the "One and Only", who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

    Is that true of me, you, or anyone but Christ?

    Heb 1:3 "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."

    Jesus again calls Himself the Son of God and elaborates on His unique Sonship in Matt 11:27-
    "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."


    And in John 5:22 Christ again calls Himself the Son of God, and elaborates:
    "Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him."

    When speaking about the unique son the bible often uses the Greek word translated “one and only” is "monogenes". It means "only born", or "sole". Vine's Expository Dictionary of N.T. Words adds that "the term is one of endearment as well as singleness."
    JESUS IS THE UNIQUE SON OF GOD

    BTW in your rambling you didn't answer my emphatic and targeted question. If Hell is an actual place is God present there?
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    suicide, even assisted suicide, is not condoned by the bible. nor does the NT advocate sacrifice. Laying down one's life, means simply to set aside one's own selfish motives. no one has to die for that to happen.

    christ isnt not a single individual.


    taking up one's cross, or yoke, does not sacrifice anything but selfish motives. one doesn't have to die in order to alleviate another's suffering.

    the whole of the Law is based on Love. It isn't based on sacrificing something for something, or quid pro quo. the scribes and pharisees practiced that old routine and jesus told them it wasn't getting them anywhere.

    it's about love and alleviating the suffering of those in need.


    not all christians believe in idolatry and sacrificing.
     
  7. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    I didn't mention suicide nor does the bible. The bible does however mention martyrdom and holds it as a great virtue. The bible in verse after verse suggests our faith may cost us our lives, and that to suffer and die for our faith just as Christ did is one of the highest honors a Christian can merit. However none of this has to do with what you responded to. It is just more random rambling.

    Christ (in the bible) is not a name but a title. That is why the terms "Jesus the Christ" is so often used. And yes there is only one.

    Nope, taking up our cross means to bear anything necessary in service to our faith just as Jesus did.

    But sacrificing oneself (in whatever form may be necessary) is the highest expression of love possible. That is why we build museums, write books about, build statues of, and give medals to those that have perished in the service of others.

    The greatest possible example of that is Christ's (the one and only) suffering and dying to unite us with the father whom our sins had estranged us from.


    I have no idea why you said this. All actual Christians believe in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. It is the most important event in the bible.

    The Resurrection of the Dead
    13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith. 15In that case, we are also exposed as false witnesses about God. For we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead, but He did not raise Him if in fact the dead are not raised.…

    That single verse eviscerates most of your claims. Have you even read the whole bible? It appears to my you decide what you want to be true then do what Thomas Jefferson did, and cut out all the verses except those you find convenient.
     
  8. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    from my understanding the whole of the Law is based on two things. Loving God and neighbor as self? the kingdom of God comes from within each of us. do you not know that your body is the temple of the indwelling Spirit of God? this is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable by God the Father and the son because the Spirit of God is denied by self as being within self, or exodus 3:14 I AM that i am. blasphemy regarding the Holy Spirit is pronounced against self and must be forgiven by self.

    the Law isn't based on idolizing Jesus, or becoming a martyr, or sacrificing something, or treating people differently because of what title they wear, or what robes, or lack there of. the Law is based solely on Love. There is no one above the Law because the Spirit of God is to Love. That is exactly what God is above all things, God is Love 1 John 4:8. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18. The Law is fulfilled when it is Love because Love covers all sins Proverbs 10:12 and 1 Peter 4:8.


    The law is service to ALL with love as christ. just as jesus told peter in john 21:15 feed my Lambs, or christs. What you do unto the least of these you have done unto me. He didn't say what you do unto the least of these only but shows that even the least are worthy of respect and love.

    flattering and fawning over Jesus isn't going to get anyone anywhere. it's not what one says but what one does because wolves come in all kinds of christian denominations. this is how we know them by their fruits and not by their titles, their appearances, their self-proclamations, but by their very actions.


    Love God, Love your neighbors, Love your enemies. LOVE. LOVE. LOVE.

    if your actions are not based on Love then your actions are motivated by selfish reasons.
     
    #48 Fool, Sep 7, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Actually, that verse seems to infer that those specific sacrifices meant nothing, not that sacrifice itself is wrong. The meaning would actually infer that sacrifice /generally/, was accepted
     
  10. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    This kingdom of God within us stuff only applies to born again Christians. Again I will destroy your position with one quote.

    New International Version
    Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

    We are not saved by obeying the law. Again one verse.

    New International Version
    For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.


    We are not debating what the law is based on or which of the 613 are the most important. The law saves no one. It's purpose is to show us we need saving. Again one single verse.

    New International Version
    For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,



    We should worship the person who gave everything to save us instead of worshiping false idols like Melchezidek or being obsessed by the law which condemns us.

    Philippians 2:9-11
    For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Hebrews 1:6
    And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."

    The bible emphatically condemns almost every position you hold, as it emphatically confirms the positions I hold.



    Did I say anything against love?

    I keep quoting scriptures that condemn your positions so you keep changing your claims. We were not discussing the motivations for anyone's actions. Your just rambling.
     
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the underlying problem is that sacrificing anything is not God sanctioned because you can't give to God what is already God's creation. God created everything from self and that is why exodus 3:14-15 I AM that i am states.

    isaiah 66 asks where are you going to define God's limits? in fact it mentions the name at isaiah 66:5 and then all hell breaks loose at 66:6.

    god is omnipresent.

    Jeremiah 23:24
    Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

    and finally what isaiah had to say about religious robes from isaiah 64:6. appearances can be deceiving because wolves come even in sheeps clothings. it isn't about appearances. it's about actions. God clothed mankind in creation and the truth is naked and will set you free.

    isaiah prophesied for 3 yrs naked.
     
    #51 Fool, Sep 8, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    doesn't say you have to be born again as an idolator, or a christian, or jesus worshiper. fail. jesus didn't tell people they had to become a cult of personality.

    faith without works is d-e-a-d. a tree is known by it's fruit and not by it's promise = faith.

    the law is fulfilled in love. love covers all sin and fulfills the Law. no one is above it. the righteous practice it. it is not abolished by the sacrifice of anyone but can only be fulfilled through the actions of the person..

    One is no longer under the Law; when one is practicing the Law of LOVE, or Law of ONE. Self is the Law, and can be a judge.

    Matthew 5:18
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Love transcends heaven and earth. It was with God in the beginning because it is God's creation and god saw it and said that it was "good".


    613 commandments to the levites is not the Law. the Law is singular not plural. it is not divided based on persons, titles, socio-economic, ethnic, or religiosity. It's the Law of ONE, or the Law of Love. all stand before the judgment seat and judged by their heart because out of the heart proceeds all.

    Circumcising your heart is to be born again. isaiah spoke the truth about a closed heart.



    Proverbs 4:23
    Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.


    you quote paul against Jesus. even paul tells you that love is the highest aspiration in 1 corinthians 13.

    paul doesn't advocate idolatry. and paul states that we are all children of god; which confers with Jesus and 1 John 3:2 through christ and not Jesus.


    the name is not jesus. the name is I AM from exodus 3:14. all prophets were recognized by that name because it was the name to be used by all prophets that had been annointed. that is why jesus said, "if another man comes in his own name, him you will believe". Jesus came in the name of the Father. before abraham "I AM". that was the name.

    jesus didn't teach to christians. that is your first mistake.
    jesus taught to all types of religious people. he didn't say worship me. he said, "do as i do". a hypocrite says do as i say but not as i do. he said you can do all these things and more, if you believe. he didn't say you can do all these things and more; if you idolize me, or worship me.

    the law of love doesn't condemn anyone. Jesus didn't die for me. he was murdered by people who committed sin through ignorance. god forgive them for they know not what they do. he didn't say i forgive them. Jesus is not God anymore than Melchizedek was God.

    and i'm definitely not advocating a cult of personality to Melchizedek any more than i am to yeshuah. Christ is inherent in all things. no matter where i look I AM there; which is everywhere.
     
    #52 Fool, Sep 8, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  13. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    God didn't create everything from self, because creation isn't deity//pantheism.

    You keep making this mistake in your arguments.
     
  14. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    oh but the bible says so not just pantheism but panentheism.

    it doesn't use the specific word but the idea is explicitly used throughout. the word panentheism wasn't even coined until the early 1700s by then the bible had already been published.

    Colossians 1:16
    For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.


    Isaiah 45:5
    I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen(clothe) you, though you have not acknowledged me,


    John 1:3
    3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.


    Exodus 3:14
    ehyeh asher ehyeah I AM that i am


    Romans 11:36
    For from him and through him
    and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.


    Psalm 139:7-10
    Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, read more.


    Jeremiah 23:23-24
    "Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off? "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD.



    Et al..............
     
    #54 Fool, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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