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Featured Righteousness

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    jesus didn't call people to become christians. he called them to be friends because there is no greater love in all the world.

    friendly to self, friendly to others like self.

    never underestimate the power of love.

    Luke 14:10
    But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, move up higher.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you.


    abraham was called a friend of God

    Job 29:4
    as I was in my prime, when the friendship of God was upon my tent,
     
    #21 Fool, Aug 21, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  2. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    I will pray for you, Fool.
     
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    pray hard, maybe 'your' god will come, grace us with it's presence.

    What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is with us, who can be against us?


    immanuel
     
  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    It seems to me that it goes beyond craving for power only. People also crave certainty and "bragging rights".
     
  5. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    lung-ta
     
  6. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    The tibetan term for "wind horse"?
     
  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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  8. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    So you see no distinction between us and the god of Abraham? Everyone is a god? How very strange.

    .
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    1 Corinthians 12:15
    If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.
     
  10. LukeS

    LukeS Active Member

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    Christianity is a tiny bit like tantric Buddhism, worship the guru, and his righteousness becomes yours through identification / introjection. The main difference being tantric yidams (deities) are usually more at peace in their ways, as compared to being crucified.
     
  11. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    1. There is not enough information about Melchizedek in the bible to draw any detailed conclusions about him.
    2. Being righteous means to be in right standing with God, it does not mean moral perfection.
    3. Christ was morally perfect and divine.
    4. Melchizedek was neither.

    5. However even if none of the above were true we would still only be required to worship Christ because that is what God commanded.

    We are doing what the bible commands. New Living Translation
    Jesus replied, "The Scriptures say, 'You must worship the LORD your God and serve only him.'"

    So your basically asking us why are we doing what God said we are supposed to do.
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    jesus was not always perfect. christ is. jesus had to overcome something.


    abraham called melchizedek lord, that is what the high priest of el is called.

    also, jesus is called a priest, or lord, forever after, that is important because it isn't before, but after Melchizedek.

    psalm 110:4
    The LORD has taken an oath and will not break his vow: "You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."




    Lord

    or

    18:1And the Lord appeared to him by the ooaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth 2 if I have found favor in your sight, and said, “O Lord, do not pass by your servant.


    Melchizedek



    jesus and david said he was a god like us. He didn't say he was exclusively god, or the god most high.

    jesus made the disciples his equals. he didn't make them his subordinates. the bible, nor Jesus, advocated idolatry. he actually taught against it and denied it in the temptation

    John 15:15
    I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have calledyou friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
     
    #32 Fool, Aug 26, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  13. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    Jesus and Christ are the same entity. Overcoming something is not a lack of virtue. That does not even make sense.


    I think your getting verses mixed up. Melchezidek was called a priest not Lord. Or you could be getting your identities mixed up.

    17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty;1 walk before me, and be blameless,

    That is God not Melchezidek he is calling Lord.



    Jesus received the title of Lord when he began his ministry, not in connection with anything concerning Melchezidek.

    Israel had a succession of high priests during most of the OT period, some were good, some were bad. Melchezidek was simply one of the good ones. Christ was another priest in that order but he was different from all previous priests in that he was perfect and his priesthood would last forever.




    Genesis 18 1-2 are not talking about Melchezidek. Usually translated as 2 angels and the spirit of the Lord. It is unknown who the spirit of the Lord referred to but I have never heard of anyone believing it referred to Melchezidek before.


    Your link says Melchezidek was Made like the Son of God. Even a liberal interpretation would mean that Melchezidek required God's help to be like Christ.


    What verses are you referring to?

    1. Did the disciples exist before creation?
    2. Was everything that exists created through the disciples?
    3. Did they give their lives to pay for all the sins of mankind?
    4. Did the disciples forgive sins in their names?
    5. Are the disciples occupants of the throne of God?

    I guess they are not equal then. All that and more applies to David, Melchezidek, and the rest of us as well.

    It says friends not equals. You have not provided a single bible verse to back up a single claim yet.
     
  14. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Christ isn't a single individual vs another individual, or even the rest of humanity. That which is perfect doesn't have to overcome anything..

    case in point:


    colossians 3:11

    and

    Romans 8:11
    And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.


    the kingdom of god dwells within us, it doesn't come with the return of Jesus.



    oh but it is. he was called adonai-tzedek which is Lord of Righteousness, or King of Peace(King of Salem). that was the title for the king of Jerusalem. As shown in Joshua 10:1

    10 Now Adoni-Zedek, King of Jerusalem, heard that Joshua had taken Ai and totally destroyed it, doing to Ai and its king as he had done to Jericho and its king, and that the people of Gibeon had made a treaty of peace with Israel and had become their allies.



    Melchizedek wasn't a levite like Aaron, or Moses.

    hebrews even tell you this. hebrews compares Jesus to Melchizedek. it doesn't compare Melchizedek, or adonai-tzedek to Jesus. Melchizedek was perfect.

    Hebrews 7:

    11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.







    ah you mean like this?

    Luke 4:18
    "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,

    who annointed Jesus? himself? then why refer to himself in the 2nd person pronoun in the past tense? why would Jesus need to be led by the Spirit as disassociated from himself?



    jesus was begotten. obviously Jesus needed God's Spirit to become like Christ.


    strong's G2962 is used when referencing Jesus

    also, messiah isn't a single person.

    case in point.
     
    #34 Fool, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  15. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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    Anyone can become a Christ.
    I am certain that there is one in the world all the time.
    It is the only way to become a friend of God.
     
  16. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    abraham was called a friend of God

    maitreya, or tzaddik, odin, a wondering wanderer.

    or as some in judaism believe there are 36 righteous people in the world at all times, Tzadikim Nistarim.





     
  17. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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    Perhaps it is that both are true.
     
  18. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

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    I have never seen points as strange, posts as meandering, or verses as misunderstood as some of your responses. In two sentences you slam together 2 completely unrelated things then post verses that have nothing to do with either

    This verse does not have anything to do with perfection of who Christ is. It is a verse explaining that race, creed, color, etc...... is irrelevant to our status as Christians.

    This verse has nothing to do with perfection either. This is a verse concerning the indwelling of the holy spirit and says nothing about anyone but Jesus being Christ.

    Christ is a title not a name. The full and formal title is Jesus the Christ as in:

    Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
    7 Bible verses about Jesus Recognised As The Christ

    He only said that about one man, not you, not me, not anyone but Jesus. Notice how my verses emphatically state exactly what it was that I claim.


    I did not say anything to which this was a response to. I have not stated anything about where the kingdom of God is.



    Notice how your verses never even imply what you claim. There is nothing in the verse you quoted that says Melchezidek is the Lord. It does not even use the term at all. You gave him a bunch of titles then quoted a verse which contained none of them except for the King of Salem (that one "might" be accurate).



    I said he was a priest, I didn't say he was a Levite. Because that is exactly what the Bible says.

    You claim Melchezidek was perfect then quote another verse that does not back you up.

    Read Mathew Henry's commentary of Hebrews 7: He interprets it almost in a way opposite to yours.
    Hebrews 7 - Matthew Henry’s Commentary - Bible Commentary

    If Melchezidek was like Christ there would not have been a need for another priest. When Christ came there was no need for priests, he retains his roll as priest forever.






    That verse has nothing to do with anything I said. The verse is a quote from Isaiah that appears to refer to the anointing of Isaiah for the purpose of prophesying the coming of the reign of the messiah. It was read as a way of Jesus pointing out that Isaiah had predicted his arrival as messiah. Since it had nothing to do with what I said I didn't dig into it very far.



    Begotten not created. Begotten means to be composed of the same essence.


    I do not see what your referring to G2962 for. I read it but have no idea what I am supposed to do with it.


    The OT is full of things referred to as types and shadows. There are hundreds of them and they extremely impressive once understood.

    1. There are types of Christ in the OT but only one true Christ.
    2. There are types and shadows of messiahs in the OT but only one true messiah.
    3. There is a type of Passover in the OT but only one true Passover.
    4. There is at least one shadow of the cross in the OT but only one true cross.
    5. There are shadows of saviors in the OT but only one true savior. For example there were many people brought back to life previous to Christ but everyone of them died again, only Christ was resurrected. The resuscitations were a kind of shadow the predicted the resurrection.


    Your getting the shadows and types confused with the real thing. Another example is the entire nation of Israel is a type of messiah but not one person in that nation could save anyone, they were a shadow of the real messiah Christ who could forgive all sins past, present, and future. The same with the blood of sacrificed animals, etc.......
     
  19. Fool

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    so you don't believe the two verses show similar ideas that the Spirit was upon Melchizedek, just like it was upon Jesus? in other words god is a respecter of persons; specifically god is a respecter of Jesus. that nullifies that word of god; if so.

    the verse shows that christ is potentially everyone. christ is not necessarily a person but all has come from christ. christ comes from within. Jesus wasn't born, or raised up through self, but Christ is.

    God is love. that is what the kingdom of God is, it's love. it isn't Jesus vs everyone else.


    christ isn't an OT term. languages evolve and some words become archaic, or no longer used. jesus was made after the pattern/order of melchizedek. Melchizedek was the king of salem; which is King of Peace.

    already know this. the term cristos is unique to the OT it isn't normative to the OT. the OT term was meschiach.

    john 21:15 refers to other christs. that is what arnion(lambs) symbolized.


    that is what the 144,000 on mt sion symbolizes. a whole army of christs having their father's name in their foreheads, an impression upon the mind.
     
  20. Fool

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    G2962 from the NT is the equivalent of the OT version H113

    G2962 is not the same as the OT H3068

    FYI, God is omnipresent in everyone and everything, thats what colossians 3:11 implies. the word all reflects everything and not exclusive to everyone.

    that is also what the name implies at exodus 3:14-15

    Jeremiah 23:23-24
    "Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off? "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD.

    jesus isn't near, nor does he fill the heavens and the earth
     
    #40 Fool, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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