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Right to Work States

Warren Clark

Informer
But people haven't gotten over it, including customers. You having pink hair could have a real (small, but real) effect on your store's revenue. It's a legitimate business concern.


Every company has procedures. I once worked for a place where I had to do my timesheet every day (instead of every week like at other firms I'd worked for). I found it an annoyance and would've preferred not to do it. There's nothing unjust or harmful about weekly timesheets; was my "liberty" violated?

I've only heard positive comments. regardless, i would think it would be an attraction not a deterrent.

That's just the method of procedure. My hair doesn't effect the method of crap.

I do graphic design. I had two instructors at one point. One would tell me one thing to do one thing and the other showed me another way.
However even though I favored one method the main instructor had us do it her way for our test in school. Sure it was annoying, but it was a reasonable. Because she wanted to make sure everyone in class was in sync and doing the same job equally.

Your time sheet is a way for the company to move smoothly because your boss doesn't want one person doing it weekly and another daily because it becomes inefficient.

My hair doesn't effect my job's efficiency or my habits.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
While I'm thinking about this issue, a particular aspect of Canadian law comes to mind that I don't think is really in place in the US: up here, while a person might not have a right to any particular job, there is - in most cases - a legal right to gainful employment that gets reflected in the rules about how an employer can and can't treat their employees.

What does everyone think of this approach?

I've been a union steward here in the States.

Having written several hundred grievances, I came to realize the underpinnings of most 'problems'.

When the employer no longer 'desires' the service of someone in particular, an argument of some kind will arise, usually wrapped around attendance or performance, or other labor issue.

Typically, the point of proving is held to the company.
Typically again, I had few difficulties supporting my co-worker.
Rarely lost a grievance.

With the current day...'at will' status of most employments....
it's a free for all.

Conformity and quiet, are all the employer wants, along with long hours and ever declining pay scale.

I've been replaced more than once by the bossman's son, who starts at a lower pay scale, knows very little about the machines,
but by 'virtue'....
is more desireable than someone with tons of know-how and experience (me).

Right to work?....I've not seen evidence of it.
The right to shut up and stay quiet in the background?...oh yeah....
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I've only heard positive comments. regardless, i would think it would be an attraction not a deterrent.
Do you think people would necessarily hear any negative comments? A person's impression of the store will affect their behaviour long before they make a point of going up to someone to complain.

Most people who dislike something in a store won't say anything; they'll just leave. Or they'll make their purchase and not come back. Either way, business can suffer even without the management ever getting a single complaint from a customer.

That's just the method of procedure. My hair doesn't effect the method of crap.
Everything in the store affects Wal-Mart's brand identity, which they use to market themselves. They project an image, and customers are attracted by the fact that they align themselves with that image. Anything that people experience in-store that varies from that brand identity can have an impact on the business.

Your time sheet is a way for the company to move smoothly because your boss doesn't want one person doing it weekly and another daily because it becomes inefficient.

My hair doesn't effect my job's efficiency or my habits.
Actually, no. That's not the reason. Supervisors would still review the timesheets weekly; our day's timesheet data just had to be in the system that day, even though nobody would actually review it until the following Monday.

Here's the reason: on US government projects (at least in engineering - don't know about other fields), the GSA requires that everyone working on the project file their hours every day. The company decided to implement this policy not just for the employees that worked on these projects, but for everyone, so I, working in a Canadian office exclusively on Canadian projects, had to abide by this rule.

But in any case, it seems that you do agree that your absolutist statement from before ("Anybody controlling anybody is a violation of liberty and freedom. (unless its to stop unjust and harmful acts)") was an overstatement. Now the only question is how much of an overstatement it is; if it's reasonable for an employer to demand daily timesheets, why wouldn't it be reasonable for an employer to institute appearance standards for front-line employees?
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
The unemployed don't really have choices.
Bull ****.
He CHOSE to work for Wal-mart.
He CHOSE to compromise his principles by choosing to work at Wal-mart.
So he is plainly paying lip service.
Either to his principles or to Wal-mart.


Personal appearence is one of the last freedoms we have.
Soon to be gone....killed by the god of conformity and the quest of the holy paycheck.
Please be so kind as to present a list of companies that allow you to wear anything you want.

Seems to me that there has NEVER been a company that allows employees to wear anything they want.

However, I could be wrong.
Please present a list of companies that allow their employees to wear anything they want..
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
By the way, Warren Clark - I honestly think your AFTER hair looks absolutely fantastic.

And I don't even shop at WalMart.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
"Right to Work" state means that your employer can fire and hire you for any given reason. If my boss doesn't like a woman with small boobs he can fire that woman and get away with it. ;)

Well, this isn't exactly true. In Right to Work states, your employer still cannot fire you for any discriminatory reasons (protected by law). They just don't have to use progressive discipline or even give you a specific reason in order to let you go. It can be simply "for reasons related to business."
 

Requia

Active Member
They can pretty much ignore labor laws law in my Right to Work state. I've been fired for getting sick (and know a couple pother people fired from the same company in violation of the FMLA). The Department of Labor said there's nothing they can do because the employer didn't need to admit why they let me go, so there's no evidence to take them to court with.
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
Yep, and if you're a waiter making less than minimum wage and the night is slow, your employer is technically supposed to make up the difference but shady managers hold the "right to fire at will" over employees' heads.

Oh boy capitalism and its many thrills.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
They can pretty much ignore labor laws law in my Right to Work state. I've been fired for getting sick (and know a couple pother people fired from the same company in violation of the FMLA). The Department of Labor said there's nothing they can do because the employer didn't need to admit why they let me go, so there's no evidence to take them to court with.

Get a lawyer. If you've really got a case, they'll see the merit of suing the company and getting a cut of your settlement.

If companies violate FMLA, it's pretty easy to prove.
 

Yeshe Dawa

Lotus Born
I agree with almost everything.
I even stated some of the same in a reply to revolt. :p
Although I would never say that Reverend Rick or Kathryn would be "right" to do anything. (they have the right to under freedom of speech and all, but I would never say they would be right doing it) :)
Because we all know people with pink and green hair will be the downfall of our country. :D

I liked your response. It wasn't harsh. It was kind. and liberal lol

I did die my hair by the way. It now has an edge with a conservative darkness to it... my hair dresser is fantastic. lol.

Hi Warren!

I'm glad you have a good hairdresser.:) I like that phrase, "conservative darkness" - it seems appropriate. I hope you find greener pastures soon.

I really hate Wal-Mart and I refuse to shop there. Besides the big picture evil I mentioned, the 10 people in each line with only half the registers open is ridiculous, as well as the old guy at the door who wants to check your receipt for the ironing board you just paid for at the register three feet away. (Yes, that happened to me). It's bad enough they way they treat their workers, but to treat your customers bad is just plain stupid.

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:
 

Yeshe Dawa

Lotus Born
HAHAHAHA! Good luck! <3 Not when capitalism doesn't support most small businesses anymore. All businesses were once small. Now some of those small businesses became super-dooper big businesses that own everything own everything.

Hi Warren!

Maybe not in every field, but in a lot of areas it's becoming apparent that capitalism is like a big game of Monopoly. Eventually one player owns most of the board.

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
I think that a lot people tend to forget that, even in a right-to-work state, all employees have the right to unionize. It won't be as easy and employees cannot be forced to join, but it isn't barred. The laws in those states only make union membership as a condition of employment illegal; employees can choose to either work directly for the employer, or they can choose to be covered under a collective bargaining agreement.
 

Yeshe Dawa

Lotus Born
I've been fired for getting sick (and know a couple pother people fired from the same company in violation of the FMLA).

Hi Requia!

I've seen the same thing happen at companies I've worked for. And these weren't deadwood, they were good people. It's a shame. :(

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I think that a lot people tend to forget that, even in a right-to-work state, all employees have the right to unionize. It won't be as easy and employees cannot be forced to join, but it isn't barred. The laws in those states only make union membership as a condition of employment illegal; employees can choose to either work directly for the employer, or they can choose to be covered under a collective bargaining agreement.

And nowadays the company handbook will have a full page statement,
denouncing unionism.

It is made clear at the point of entry...unionism won't be tolerated.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
They can denounce it all they want. They have no method of stopping it if the employees get the majority required to unionize.

I've worked in a right- to- work state for most of my career; I've had employers threaten to fire employees for even mentioning "union" and threaten to close shop to prevent it. And I've seen those same business owners backpedal fast enough to break their neck when threatened with federal charges for violating US law that protects the right to unionize.

If you work in a right-to-work state and do not know the laws that protect you or how to cover your *** when dealing with your employer, you're doing yourself a lot of harm.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
They can denounce it all they want. They have no method of stopping it if the employees get the majority required to unionize.

I've worked in a right- to- work state for most of my career; I've had employers threaten to fire employees for even mentioning "union" and threaten to close shop to prevent it. And I've seen those same business owners backpedal fast enough to break their neck when threatened with federal charges for violating US law that protects the right to unionize.

If you work in a right-to-work state and do not know the laws that protect you or how to cover your *** when dealing with your employer, you're doing yourself a lot of harm.

On one occasion I was the last man standing in the tool room.
It was the same tool room in which I served as union steward.

Getting in between the boss man and the employee has been interesting.
In one event I was threatened with arrest.
My fellow steward suggested we go to the union hall.
I suggested...'let's do the arrest thing'.

Knowing you are in the right is one thing.
Standing your ground is quite another.
For my friends sake....we went to the union hall.

The legal rep got on the phone....called the boss...and explained to him the consequence for an unfair labor practice.
$100,000 per day fine until such practice ceases.
He went on to clarify that both stewards would come back to the shop...
without any loss in pay.

Chalk one up for the day won.

Business went down the tubes.
Orders fell behind.....why?
Skilled labor has said to hell with it.

The employees jumped ship....finding work wherever they could.
Even the foreman was gone before I was.
For about a month I had the shop all to myself.

The management didn't want to deal with people.
Not in their scheme of things.
Company pride and that 'never give an inch' is what authority is all about.

Time went by and the company sold out.
Half of it went to Mexico. The other half went to Tennessee.
A very small portion remains here in town.

The tool room was shut down altogether.

Could it have been avoided?...yes.

But doing so would require a different scheme of things here in this country.
And so far...a law that insures fairness in the work place...does not exist.
 
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