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Right man for the job (decline and fall)?

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
It isn’t that simple. Days before the Berlin Wall came down, leaders in East Germany held a conference in which they celebrated something or other, only to turn round and say the wall will stand for another hundred years.

The collapse of communism in eastern Europe and the USSR was partly because the parties were willing to reform. Gorbachev didn’t send the tanks in like he predecessors did in Hungary or Czechoslovakia. Very few people anticipated the “end” even when things started to unravel. Chernobyl only demonstrated the need for reform. It showed the rot was there but it was far from automatic that it would lead to a collapse.

The path to an actual social and political revolution in the United States as the equivalent of what happened in the USSR is far from obvious. The easiest way would be for Bernie Sanders to win the democratic nomination by a series of landslides in the primaries or in a contested convention, then win the Presidency and be America’s Gorbachev, dismantling the evil empire from the inside.

Only, like Gorbachev, the reforms fail, the economy collapses, a military coup is attempted and fails and the American people radicalise to the point where the government is overthrown and replaced.

I would urge caution before saying the system is going to collapse. That is far from a fore gone conclusion. But America’s response to the pandemic does show how deep the rot has gone and that it the U.S. government is a danger to its own citizens.

The Marxist in me says, the pandemic won’t cause anything new, but will accelerate pre-existing processes and aggregate antagonisms. But the human factor- the choices we make- remains. If we step up, things will get interesting.

I tend to agree with you here and I think few will be expecting the USA to swing to the left all of a sudden although they might be expecting some changes, such as to the health system as it appears to be unable to cope with the scale of this crisis. And it probably makes it unlikely for Trump to be re-elected. They might even get back to having reasonably normal politicians - this experiment having failed. :oops:
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
China has laws which require many foreign business to openly share their technology with Chinese partners. That is a unique law not found in the West.

if you don't like the rules in the play ground no one is forcing you to play there.
Who is to say which set of rules is best for the world in the long run.
but China will inevitably win the present set of battles.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
if you don't like the rules in the play ground no one is forcing you to play there.

Sure. Companies willing take part as China is a huge market. Similar laws should be put in place in the West so we can drain tech from China. Turn about is fair play.

Who is to say which set of rules is best for the world in the long run.

It isn't so much the rules but a form of economic protection many in the West reject. They want their cheap products and care little for their nations economies most of the time.

but China will inevitably win the present set of battles.

Uncertain. The US and EU could cripple China but it would require sacrifice by citizens. Citizens that rather have cheap stuff these days.
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Sure. Companies willing take part as China is a huge market. Similar laws should be put in place in the West so we can drain tech from China. Turn about is fair play.



It isn't so much the rules but a form of economic protection many in the West reject. They want their cheap products and care little for their nations economies most of the time.



Uncertain. The US and EU could cripple China but it would require sacrifice by citizens. Citizens that rather have cheap stuff these days.

The EU do not share the USA's views about China. Nor do many in the UK. The government is sitting on the fence and recently defeated its own dissenters in parliament over the matter of Huawei?
J The truth of the matter is that China is now more important than the USA in terms of world trade, and especially trade in the far East and Africa, where China has many supporters and partners.

We certainly do not see China as the " enemy" as do many in the USA.
If you used the same rules in The USA as in China, you would find that there woul be a massive advance in research and development. The patent and copyright laws in the west are massive block on the spread of new technology, as it prevents the free use of the best ideas and ways of doing things.

In the past scientist published their research so as to prevent it being patented. Now they patent it first so that others are unable to use it for many years.
They even try to patent genetic code.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
The EU do not share the USA's views about China. Nor do many in the UK. The government is sitting on the fence and recently defeated its own dissenters in parliament over the matter of Huawei?
J The truth of the matter is that China is now more important than the USA in terms of world trade, and especially trade in the far East and Africa, where China has many supporters and partners.

That is due to the EU's decline in industry and production combined with foolish idealism.

African economies sell raw resources to China. This goes back to the point about declining production of the West. Toss in the whole colonialism black mark by Europe.


We certainly do not see China as the " enemy" as do many in the USA.

That is because the EU is apathetic and powerless to the economic rigging done by China nor has a population that cares about their nation.

If you used the same rules in The USA as in China, you would find that there woul be a massive advance in research and development. The patent and copyright laws in the west are massive block on the spread of new technology, as it prevents the free use of the best ideas and ways of doing things.

Those also drive up costs as companies have to invest funds to meet over the top standards. Many on the left are against deregulation thus have handicapped their own nation by red tape and fees.

In the past scientist published their research so as to prevent it being patented. Now they patent it first so that others are unable to use it for many years.

Decades even especially if rights are sold to a corporation which out lives the human creators. Patent filing in the West has been outdated for years while refusing to look at reality.

They even try to patent genetic code.

Happens when government is comprised of lawyers.
 
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