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Riding a Horse and a Thief?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions DIR' started by Ellen Brown, Aug 4, 2018.

  1. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Rev. 19:11 (Copy and paste is not working. :()

    Has Jesus coming in the clouds, on a white horse and carrying a two edged sword...

    Yet, in Rev. 16:15 he "comes as a thief in the night...".

    How can he do both? Um not saying he can't, just don't get it.

    I LOVE questions that stump me. It gives me purpose. :)
     
  2. OtherSheep

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    They still won't know the day or the hour. The wise virgins keep thier lamps full... Revelation's churches are a must read.
     
  3. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus coming as a thief is more than just His final return. It also has to do with everyone's time of death. We don't know when we will die.
     
  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Great questions. This is the material and spiritual fulfilment of Prophecy. When Jesus say that all eyes shall see and then also warns us to have spiritual eyes and spiritual ears, will it be our material eyes that see?

    I ask how do you now see and except that Muhammad is a Messenger of God? Would you agree It is not the Material eyes that see this, that it is every spiritual eye that accepts that Muhammad is God? Those that do not see Muhammad Spiritually, still see Muhammad reflected in the influence of those that have accepted.

    Peace be with you.
     
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  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I note that does not say the year ;)

    Peace be with you.
     
  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I found a few years ago a good explanation on the Two Edged Sword; this was it

    "...And further He saith: "Out of his mouth goeth a two edged sword." Know thou that since the sword is an instrument that divideth and cleaveth asunder, and since there proceedeth from the mouth of the Prophets and the Chosen Ones of God that which separateth the believer from the infidel and the lover from the beloved, this term hath been so employed, and apart from this dividing and separating no other meaning is intended...." (Baha'u'llah : Gems of Divine Mysteries)

    Peace be with you.
     
  7. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Rev. 16:15 He "comes as a thief in the night...".
    Rev. 19:11 He is coming in the clouds, on a white horse and carrying a two edged sword...

    So both are true:
    First one first. He comes unexpected
    Of course when coming, He is seen
     
    #7 stvdv, Aug 4, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  8. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    People who "try to interpret when He comes again"
    They profess that they do not believe this verse to be true
     
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  9. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I was Christian first in 1974. They talked a lot about the Prophets of God; saying that Jesus was the last one, and Son also. It never seemed right to me that after the death of Jesus, God just quit talking to us and walked away in disgust. There were no available candidates for hundreds of years. Then came Muhammad PBUH in the 7th Century. He was another Prophet of Allah SWT. He was supposed to be the last prophet of Allah SWT, and now it has been 1400 years? The pattern before had been that God sent along a Prophet every several hundred years.

    After the passing of the Prophet Muhammad, came Martin Luther around 1500. Was he a Prophet? I do not know. Later, there was Joseph Smith (Mormon), around 1835, about 180 years. Are any of these guys Prophets? I don't know? The Mormons say that JS Smith was. What do they know? My major quarrel with them is the whole polygamy thing, which they dissemble about, a lot. And their doctrine says they can lie to protect the church. What ever.

    Questions, nothing but questions.
     
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  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I would observe that clouds veil the sunlight from shining upon the earth. Thus Spiritual Clouds will achieve the same result. The Bible warns us not to become blind and who are we to say that we have not?

    This following passage of the end of ages, the last days tells us that we may all have become blind;

    "Isaiah35:1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompense; he will come and save you.5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:10 And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away."

    This is easy to decide upon, as this part of that prophecy is quite clear; "Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God."


    Has any thing happened on Mt Carmel which also has the valley of Sharon, that includes the "glory of the Lord"?


    Peace be with you always
     
  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Good on you questions are life, it means we are growing and have not not become static or dead in Faith. Also well done to you as you have observed correctly and I also do beleive that God does not leave us alone and sends His Messengers.

    I think you would be excited about the Revelation of the Bab on May 22, 1844, in Shiraz, Persia now (Iran). It is that revelation that happened in AH1260 and thus opened up a lot of meaning in Biblical Scripture. Báb - Wikipedia

    Peace be with you always
     
    #11 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Aug 4, 2018
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  12. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I rather believe the words of my Master, Sai Baba who declared:"I came to correct the errors in the scriptures: God will not come [as an incarnation] with vengeance, but with the sword of `Love` and with forgiveness. Because if God had to kill the `bad ones` none would be spared".
     
    #12 stvdv, Aug 4, 2018
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  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    That is great and personally I see that is what Muhammad also taught. It is a shame that the people of the time did not accept that path, but that was not to be. I think you, like me, would also appreciate the message given by Baha'u'llah, from what I have read it seems to mirror the ideas you quoted above from Sai Baba above.

    It is great to find another soul working towards our peace stvdv.

    Peace be with you an all.
     
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  14. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    I would keep it simple.

    Revelation 11
    And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

    Heaven opening is a new revelation from God such as the Torah from Moses, The Gospels from Christ, and the Quran from Muhammad.

    A white horse symbolises Holiness and purity and the vehicle through which we can obtain it.

    He or she that follows the new revelation becomes a fruitful tree.

    Through the New Revelation God Judges and this results in a violent upheaval as the people of the previous revelation oppose the new. Think how the Jews opposed Christ and thier highest priest Caiaphas handed Him over to be put to death. Consider also the opposition of Muhammad's own people (The Quarysh tribe for example) and how they opposed Him.

    Revelation 15

    Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

    Means none of us know the day or the hour and to live rightly and justly to enable us to recognise the new Messiah or Christ when He comes.
     
    #14 adrian009, Aug 5, 2018
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  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Prophesies are definitely not interpreted in terms of being literal. The Book of Revelation is most more like a bad dream of a radical view of a war between absolute good and evil, and definitely symbolically interpreted.

    The thief in the night to me is the prophesy that the return will not be as expected and the Manifestation of God will be rejected by most people.

    . . . coming in the clouds, on a white horse and carrying a two edged sword . . . to me the white horse represents Revelation from God, and the double edged sword cuts both for good, and the dark violent of humans in the response by humans rejecting the New Age of the Revelation from God.

    Many interpret prophesies in an apocalyptic catastrophic and supernatural Return often an end to the world, but this will no likely happen, because of God's promises to his beloved Creation humanity.
     
  16. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    How about quoting your source for that BS.

    Yeah, whatever.
     
  17. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Agreed.

    I was surprised today to hear someone preaching from 1 Cor 11:17, and them interpretting it to mean that Paul was punishing that church. My own interpretation would have been that he admonished and pleaded with them to get on track.
     
  18. OtherSheep

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    They are to be interpreted as literal if they make common sense.

    _____________________________
    The Reaping is the theme, and the reason to Watch.


    Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. (the wheat)
    14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. (the tares)
    14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (to Megiddo, before the vials are poured out)

    Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (these are also the 10 virgins)
    Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
    Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white: for they are worthy.
    Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


    Matthew 22:5 But they made light of [it], and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: 6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew [them].
    Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
    19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
    19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.

    ______________________________________
    Knowing when the reaping will be, is the secret. But we're not told to watch the days and hours or even years... we're told to watch our selves... to keep faith in Jesus, and to do the works of the Kingdom Gospel, every day, all day long, no matter what happens.
    Jesus says, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments."
     
    #18 OtherSheep, Aug 5, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    If interpretation of scripture is understood as 'common sense' it would a very fallible human understanding, which is the reason there are so many different interpretations.
     
  20. OtherSheep

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    Matthew 11:16-19 "But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children."
     
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