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Richard Dawkins interviews a Muslim guy

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Call me optimistic, but I think we do a decent job of staying ahead and keeping them in check.

Hmmm. I would say that for women in the Muslim majority world, we're not staying ahead and keeping bad ideas in check. Women in the Muslim majority world tend to be less safe than women in other parts of the world.
 

Enlil

Allah's servant
We're quickly headed towards the philosophy forum ;)

My opinion seems moral and ethical. Deporting a person disrupts a person's current life. Dis-allowing a person to immigrate disrupts only a plan. Now, I don't think we should be arbitrary in our immigration decisions. I think we should be transparent. This should minimize false expectations.

Okay, agreed. What then, exactly, are the criteria by which we should judge whether to let someone in or not?
 

Enlil

Allah's servant
Hmmm. I would say that for women in the Muslim majority world, we're not staying ahead and keeping bad ideas in check. Women in the Muslim majority world tend to be less safe than women in other parts of the world.

Right, but your reference to too many people with powerful weapons suggested that your concern lies elsewhere.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Right, but your reference to too many people with powerful weapons suggested that your concern lies elsewhere.

I think it's quite reasonable for me to be concerned BOTH with women's rights AND with theocracies holding WMDs.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Okay, agreed. What then, exactly, are the criteria by which we should judge whether to let someone in or not?

Not an easy question, but maybe there's some low-hanging fruit. How about disallowing immigration for people who believe in theocracies, since theocracies are in total opposition to our secular constitution?
 

Enlil

Allah's servant
Not an easy question, but maybe there's some low-hanging fruit. How about disallowing immigration for people who believe in theocracies, since theocracies are in total opposition to our secular constitution?

So these people would have to say they believe in theocracies, broadly defined? Or specific kinds of theocracy (e.g. Islamic ones)?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd agree that there are some common areas. But compared to Islam, relatively few Christians these days claim and act as though the Bible is perfect and unalterable.
That's because of a long and bruising encounter that started from the 30 years war and continued till the fall of USSR. The religious and irreligious extremists fought and killed to exhaustion till more moderate tempers prevailed.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
So these people would have to say they believe in theocracies, broadly defined? Or specific kinds of theocracy (e.g. Islamic ones)?

I think that anyone who claims to want to live in any sort of theocracy should be banned from immigration.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
That's because of a long and bruising encounter that started from the 30 years war and continued till the fall of USSR. The religious and irreligious extremists fought and killed to exhaustion till more moderate tempers prevailed.

Yup, and as was discussed earlier, I'm concerned that the world doesn't have the time or the resiliency to withstand a similar such violent evolution for Islam.
 

Enlil

Allah's servant
I think that anyone who claims to want to live in any sort of theocracy should be banned from immigration.

I pretty much agree. But it would be pretty easy to lie just in order to get in. So I'm not sure how practical this would be in limiting the entry of the kinds of people you want to stop from entering the country.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I think that anyone who claims to want to live in any sort of theocracy should be banned from immigration.

That would be ideal in some ways, but ironically it is unconstitutional. Part of allowing freedom of belief is allowing people to have whacky beliefs.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
That would be ideal in some ways, but ironically it is unconstitutional. Part of allowing freedom of belief is allowing people to have whacky beliefs.
We have always limited immigration on this basis since the creation of the FBI, starting with communists. Whether it was constitutional or not it became accepted practice.
 

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
Of course they do. Sharia Law is a religious practice that oppresses women and minorities.

If a person chooses to be a part of that religion then they are choosing to be under that law.

Jihad is a religious practice that involves the murder of non-Muslims. The Inquisition was a religious practice that oppressed dissenters from the Catholic Church by torturing them. The list goes on and on, but the bottom line is that many religious practices DO oppress others. The ones that don't should be allowed, and the ones that do should be against the law.

There are billions of muslims across the globe, and they are not killing non-muslims as part of a jihad. What you are talking about are actions, not religion.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yup, and as was discussed earlier, I'm concerned that the world doesn't have the time or the resiliency to withstand a similar such violent evolution for Islam.
Also, one has to ask whether it is so difficult for Islaam to learn from Christianity, and why.
 

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
Not an easy question, but maybe there's some low-hanging fruit. How about disallowing immigration for people who believe in theocracies, since theocracies are in total opposition to our secular constitution?

There are millions of Christians in America who want a Christian theocracy in the US.
 
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