Richard Dawkins interviews a Muslim guy

[Ponder This]

Watch the man in this interview spew out misogyny and condone violence in an aggressive, condescending, and unapologetic tone. We should absolutely not be "tolerant" of this kind of blatant intolerance, misogyny, and hatred that Islam breeds. I recognize that there are good Muslims in the world who do not behave like this. My reason for singling out Islam in many of my posts is not because I despise all Muslims (I don't despise all Muslims), or want to be a rabble-rouser. I am genuinely concerned about the negative influence that Islam has in the world, and unfortunately, many people (particularly those on the far left) fail to understand just how serious a problem that Islamist ideology is, and how much it threatens the way of life of peaceful, free, western societies.

It seems clear that Richard Dawkins doesn't understand religion:

"I don't see what future the world has as long as people think like that. And people are going to go on thinking like that as long as they are brought up from childhood - from the cradle - to think that there's something good about faith - to think that there's something good about believing because you've been told to believe rather than believing because you've looked at the evidence." - from video​

I would say that he is like a blind man feeling around and touching an elephant tail and thinking that he understands the elephant.

He 'can't see what future world has'.
He doesn't understand the value or 'good' of faith.
And I think he goes to this man in the video and he wants a certain response from that man, something that vindicates his position, cements his view of reality over some other view.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Religious practices don't oppress others.

Of course they do. Sharia Law is a religious practice that oppresses women and minorities. Jihad is a religious practice that involves the murder of non-Muslims. The Inquisition was a religious practice that oppressed dissenters from the Catholic Church by torturing them. The list goes on and on, but the bottom line is that many religious practices DO oppress others. The ones that don't should be allowed, and the ones that do should be against the law.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

People have a right to have homophobic, mysognist, and racists beliefs. Where the line is drawn is when their actions violate the rights of others.



.

Agreed. Are you not familiar with the many actions done in the name of religion that violate the rights of others?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of condemning one religion for specific attributes while not condemning other religions who share the same attributes.



Another case of hypocrisy.

Not all religions are created equal. Some ARE worse than others....

 

[Subduction Zone]

This seems like a "two wrongs make it right" argument?



Yes, and countries have a right to allow only those immigrants they want to.



Another "two wrongs" ?

==

I'm not singling out Islam. I have grave concerns about other religions as well. But "this" thread is about Islam.

Islam is a younger religion than Christianity and some of its members, far too many, are where Christianity was several hundred years ago.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Leftist government? Really? Come on Hubert, before spouting off about a country you don't know anything about do some research.

Well, the UK literally bans people critical of Islam from entering the country (Britanny Pettibone and Lauren Southern to name two), but continues to allow hate speech in mosques all around the country. I don't know if it's a leftist government, but it's certainly a very biased, hypocritical, and messed up government to say the least.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Islam is a younger religion than Christianity and some of its members, far too many, are where Christianity was several hundred years ago.

True, although there is certainly much more hatred toward "unbelievers," as well as militant language in the Qur'an than there is in the New Testament. So, I think the problem goes deeper than just the stage of development Islam is currently in.

 

[YmirGF]

Yes, those darn liberals who believe in freedom of religion and all that. Just terrible people those liberals, pushing such ideas that people should worship as they see fit and belong to a religion of their own choosing.

Could it be that it is possible to speak out against immoral treatment of others while still allowing religious freedom? I think it is possible.

Oddly, I had not realized that Liberals were now the "far left" as indicated in the OP.

 

[SomeRandom]

Watch the man in this interview spew out misogyny and condone violence in an aggressive, condescending, and unapologetic tone. We should absolutely not be "tolerant" of this kind of blatant intolerance, misogyny, and hatred that Islam breeds. I recognize that there are good Muslims in the world who do not behave like this. My reason for singling out Islam in many of my posts is not because I despise all Muslims (I don't despise all Muslims), or want to be a rabble-rouser. I am genuinely concerned about the negative influence that Islam has in the world, and unfortunately, many people (particularly those on the far left) fail to understand just how serious a problem that Islamist ideology is, and how much it threatens the way of life of peaceful, free, western societies.

In every group there's always that one ******* who takes it too far. The West has more or less tamed a lot of fanatics over the years to the point where even the Westboro Baptist Church openly practices non violence (unless you count words as violence I suppose.) Though the KKK sometimes likes to buck against civilized convention.
If we can tame Neo Nazis, we can tame fanatics. Though I agree that often the "left" as you Americans call it, is too tolerant for its own good.
We can still be for religious freedoms and rebuke extremists.
But that "man" if he even be called as such, is potentially dangerous I agree.
Religion is a reflection of mankind. It has the potential to be openly kind and creative, it also contains the potential to be unspeakably cruel and malicious. Tribalism in its purest form, imo.

 

[SomeRandom]

It seems clear that Richard Dawkins doesn't understand religion:

"I don't see what future the world has as long as people think like that. And people are going to go on thinking like that as long as they are brought up from childhood - from the cradle - to think that there's something good about faith - to think that there's something good about believing because you've been told to believe rather than believing because you've looked at the evidence." - from video​

I would say that he is like a blind man feeling around and touching an elephant tail and thinking that he understands the elephant.

He 'can't see what future world has'.
He doesn't understand the value or 'good' of faith.
And I think he goes to this man in the video and he wants a certain response from that man, something that vindicates his position, cements his view of reality over some other view.

To be fair, if I had to contend with the sort of religious people Dawkins does on a regular basis, I might think the same way. One can only remain optimistic in the face of willful ignorance and the worst examples of, in this case religion, for so long.

 

[icehorse]

In every group there's always that one ******* who takes it too far. The West has more or less tamed a lot of fanatics over the years to the point where even the Westboro Baptist Church openly practices non violence (unless you count words as violence I suppose.) Though the KKK sometimes likes to buck against civilized convention.
If we can tame Neo Nazis, we can tame fanatics. Though I agree that often the "left" as you Americans call it, is too tolerant for its own good.
We can still be for religious freedoms and rebuke extremists.
But that "man" if he even be called as such, is potentially dangerous I agree.
Religion is a reflection of mankind. It has the potential to be openly kind and creative, it also contains the potential to be unspeakably cruel and malicious. Tribalism in its purest form, imo.

The thing to keep in mind with Islam though is that on a world-wide basis - including Muslims in Europe, about half of them want Sharia to be the law of the land. So we're not dealing with a few fanatics - we're dealing with hundreds of millions of people, who hold core values that don't fit well with western values.

 

[SomeRandom]

The thing to keep in mind with Islam though is that on a world-wide basis - including Muslims in Europe, about half of them want Sharia to be the law of the land. So we're not dealing with a few fanatics - we're dealing with hundreds of millions of people, who hold core values that don't fit well with western values.

I never said we had to only deal with a few fanatics. I apologize if that was falsely indicated in my comment. We also have hundreds of millions of people who are potential allies. I'm not saying to not be critical of Islam. But I also think that there are Muslims who could also be swayed to our side. I'm sure there are Muslims who see would see this video as a perversion of their faith. An insult to their prophet. If we can secure their votes, as it were, perhaps we can better counter this invasion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think that Dawkins expectations were backwards when it came to this convert. From my experience converts tend to be more extreme than those born to a belief. Exsmokers will vehemently attack those that smoke near them. Vegans will go nuts around meat. It may be a bit of a defense complex. I would not base all Islam on what this one lunatic said.

 

[Al Ibn Al Amra]

You cannot rebel against Aallah SWT .

 

[Subduction Zone]

You cannot rebel against Aallah SWT .

That is true. One cannot rebel against that which does not exist.

 

[blü 2]

Watch the man in this interview spew out misogyny and condone violence in an aggressive, condescending, and unapologetic tone.

I'm not Richard Dawkins' biggest fan, but in the video he certainly found a horrible example of fundamentalism, in this case Islamic.

That example can be matched with fundamentalists from Christianity, from Judaism, from Hinduism, from Buddhism, from Shintoism, and so on. That implacable, murderous, self-entitled mindset crops up everywhere.

The questions are, how typical are they of their religion, and what are we reasonable folk who have the numbers but not the hostility, the fire, going to do about it?

(I once heard a woman say, "You know, there's not much wrong with the world that you couldn't fix if you took all the men from 15 to 25 and put them on an island somewhere." She was joking, of course, but you can see what she meant.)

 

[LuisDantas]

Islam is a younger religion than Christianity and some of its members, far too many, are where Christianity was several hundred years ago.

And that is in itself a reason for alarm. Islaam explicitly claims to have learned from Christianity and to be succesful where it failed. Yet it not only fails to repeat Christianity's worst mistakes, it worsens them.

 

[LuisDantas]

You cannot rebel against Aallah SWT .

Nor does anyone need to.

Rebelling against doctrines that rely far too much in beliefs that were never meant to hold that much weight, though... that is an entirely different thing. One that can be done - and in fact, one that is unavoidable and fated to succeed eventually.

The doubt lies on how much effort it will take and how much damage will happen until that necessary outcome.

 

[danieldemol]

I believe that liberal Islam is a sign that you can have neutral aspects of Muslim culture without the fanaticism.

To me the best way to fight radicalism is to support the liberals

 

[Kirran]

Well, the UK literally bans people critical of Islam from entering the country (Britanny Pettibone and Lauren Southern to name two), but continues to allow hate speech in mosques all around the country. I don't know if it's a leftist government, but it's certainly a very biased, hypocritical, and messed up government to say the least.

Certainly not to be commended, but that's a very hyperbolic take - believe me, there is plenty of criticism of Islam taking place within the UK. You're taking a couple incidents in one particular area and characterising the entire British government by it. As for leftism, the governing party is literally called the Conservative Party.

Definitely, the British government has been a major contributor to Islamic extremism, via its military foreign policy, in which it follows the US party line.