My view expressed to FH is not getting across.
This is not productive.
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Revoltingest's clever ploy!
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
This is not productive.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
QUOTE="Revoltingest, post: 6775697, member: 22490"]Again?
Dang....I just did that somewhere.
Some examples....
- Cancel culture. Both sides, but isn’t this the Atlas Shrugged method?
- The Petty Offense Doctrine. Not familiar with this.
- Opposition to sex work (more than about economics). RW issue. Lefties just want safety for workers.
- Censorship. RW issue almost exclusively.
- Military draft. Definitely RW issue.
- The Crime Bill (3 strikes & all that). RW from beginning to end.
- Religious slogan on money. Who else but RW?
- Tax subsidies for religion. RW. Lefties want them taxed.
- Surveilling the poor's associations when receiving subsidized housing. Huh? Surveillance (especially of the poor) is usually a RW dream. But I’m not familiar with this issue.
......
t.[/Q
So it seems that you’re confused, because everything you listed are constructs of the Right.
I thought you were trying to cite issues from the left that you find to be constraining social freedoms.
But you really didn’t name any. 
Dang....I just did that somewhere.
Some examples....
- Cancel culture. Both sides, but isn’t this the Atlas Shrugged method?
- The Petty Offense Doctrine. Not familiar with this.
- Opposition to sex work (more than about economics). RW issue. Lefties just want safety for workers.
- Censorship. RW issue almost exclusively.
- Military draft. Definitely RW issue.
- The Crime Bill (3 strikes & all that). RW from beginning to end.
- Religious slogan on money. Who else but RW?
- Tax subsidies for religion. RW. Lefties want them taxed.
- Surveilling the poor's associations when receiving subsidized housing. Huh? Surveillance (especially of the poor) is usually a RW dream. But I’m not familiar with this issue.
......
t.[/Q
So it seems that you’re confused, because everything you listed are constructs of the Right.
I thought you were trying to cite issues from the left that you find to be constraining social freedoms.
But you really didn’t name any.
It only seems that way to you.
I responded to FH's request for elaboration on this post....
"The left isn't all that big on social freedom either.
But economic liberty seems the greater difference."
I disagree with your defense of the left, which ignores
positions of the Democratic Party, ie, the "left".
Watch what they do....not just what they say.
Even when they had power, they didn't eliminate draft
registration, they didn't expand it to women, they kept
religious subsidies, they kept the Petty Offense Doctrine,
they persecuted whistle blowers (especially Obama),
etc.
And you aren't even familiar with some of their infringements
on civil liberty. My confusion or your.....need to learn?
Oh, when using the quote feature, don't delete crucial
characters. I wasn't alerted to your post, & found it only
by happenstance.
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They follow tortured readings of it.
(Id est, they often choose to disobey it,
but will construct rationales for deviations.)
It's also made complex by different constitutional
philosophies...
- Strict Constructionism
- Originalist
- Living Document
- Ignore It When In Conflict With What Is Right
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Then I'm not sure if you're paying attention to way in which, to my mind, the far-left has the potential to establish gravity in the general left. And that means that issues of freedom break the membrane between freedom and decree
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
Can you give examples wherein this has become a threat?
Heyo
Veteran Member
We're using different definitions of "left" then.Yep.
So we've reached the point that Democrats
& Republicans are both right wing?
Heyo
Veteran Member
There are two major parties in the US, the far right and the crazy right.
The democrats are left of the republicans. That doesn't mean they are left. When your Overton window cuts off most of the left side of the spectrum, those on the mid-right seem to be left.
That runs counter to how things are normally discussed
in Ameristan. Many N Ameristanians here on RF use
the terms "left" & "right"....in the media, on RF, & IRL.
We each know (roughly) what the other means.
tytlyf
Not Religious
Correct. The radical far right, Fox, Breitbart, Rush, etc make the claim that "mainstream media is far left."
I always point out to these people that most news on TV (CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc) are not left wing, but moderate. The RW swindlers aren't interested in facts.
In reality, the Democratic party is not left wing in historical sense. But moderate.
It seems republicans don't understand that there are much much further left positions than Bernie. A lot further left. They don't take that into account. They just assume Bernie is the furthest left it can get.
We call those people "Low information voters."
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Is that actually where they test to? I'm having trouble believing that
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
You don't see how idealism would discount freedoms?
Heyo
Veteran Member
No, they weren't tested. PoliticalCompas.org did the evaluation based on voting records. https://www.politicalcompass.org/us...IC5td_7i36BNzAmU264EUOuTo4py7dYRbObjV7V2ckoXQ
Note that the article contains an update version (but isn't much different).
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
Your statement was thus:
“Then I'm not sure if you're paying attention to way in which, to my mind, the far-left has the potential to establish gravity in the general left. And that means that issues of freedom break the membrane between freedom and decree.”
Translation IMO = “I think that the far left is getting a larger foothold in the general left population. And that means that soon they will be ordering us to live by (yet to be named) leftist ideals. Oh the horror!”
To which I replied, “Examples please.”
You guys are far far too authoritarian for my taste.
I know, I know....your way makes for an efficient society,
eg, central control are best at fighting pandemics.
But efficiency isn't everything. And it has a downside
when government works against us.
The current pandemic shows how true authoritarians are horrible at fighting the pandemic (outside of China). Trump, Bolsonaro and others are proving that every day.
There is an indirect relationship with the maturity of people and the need for rules. There would be no need for rules and fines for mask wearing, social distancing etc if people acted maturely and respected facts.
When a significant number of people could care less what happens to others, to the financial well being of the country and in fact anything but their immediate self-gratification, the need for government authority increases.
When the day comes that people are significantly more mature, I will automatically become a libertarian because people will be mindful of the consequences of their behavior and act accordingly. The need for rules and laws to enforce responsible behavior will have ended.
Authoritarian regimes aren't guaranteed to be efficient.
But they can be more so than decentralized systems.
96% of people are of below average maturity.
Even libertarians (most) allow that some government authority is useful.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Yeah there is a certain far left wing pundit I am thinking of on youtube, but to name them discuss their many views would entail discussing a lot off-site material, and they probably aren't here to represent themselves. I'm pretty sure we are allowed to debate each other though, which is why I think we should go back to the question you quoted