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Featured Revising The Abrahamic Religions

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Lionel Refson, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    The Gnostic writings and so-called gospels were left out because they espoused the cosmology and soteriology of an entirely different religion. For example, the Christ of the Gnostic writings very often isn't even human; He is usually either the Christ possessing the mind and body of the man Jesus, who is left to die on the cross while the Christ escapes back to the Pleroma, or else Christ's physical body is a mere illusion, since the Christ would never become incarnate in physical matter, which is evil in most sects of Gnosticism. Gnosticism teaches that the God of the Jews and the God of the Old Testament is an evil demiurge who has fooled himself and the world into thinking that He is God, and the true God is to be found in the Pleroma outside of the physical universe. Christianity, however, teaches that the God of the Old and New Testaments are the same God; the God Who created the world is the God Who saves us from our sins.

    There was no conspiracy to cut out the Gnostic writings from the Bible. They were never included in the Bible by Christians because they were never Christian writings. They were writings that belonged to a different religion with separate traditions and followers and hierarchies and sects. Some Gnostics just happened to like the idea of Jesus.

    Minds that are still very plastic and impressionable, and which have neither the wisdom of life experience nor the intellect of academic learning.
    You think the solution to our problems is just getting rid of anything that might be "problematic". That hasn't worked in all the times that authoritarian dictatorships have tried. The solution isn't censorship, but educating people and strengthening their minds and morals to resist their baser instincts.

    I know you're new here, but you should know that we discuss politics and the environment here too. My point is that you can't pin this all on religion and make Christianity, Judaism and Islam the root cause of all the world's evil. Crazy people will always be crazy and will continue to find channels for their craziness, even if we neuter, strip down, bleach and acid wash the Abrahamic religions.

    Apparently you've never been to a church or read the works of any theologian. Christians have been interpreting the violent passages in the Old Testament to serve spiritual and peaceful messages since the birth of our religion. Just read the writings of the Church Fathers, or the writings of any modern Catholic or Orthodox scholar.
     
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  2. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind correcting false narratives, and reasoning with facts and arguments, but trying to resist a juggernaut of propaganda, repeated loudly over and over is not of interest.

    Imagine a black man trying to reason with white supremacists in a forum..

    You've got you anti-christian narratives, and the overflowing hatred for anything, 'Christian!' ..:eek:.. there really is nothing else for me to say. Enjoy your beliefs. :shrug:
     
  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    My friend, I am sorry. This part. "you cannot vet the who" Oh yes. We can. Terrorism is a law enforcement issue. And even in the case of rapid radicalization ( please see below ), there is a way to identify terrorists before they attack. And it works. This is a recent terrorism plot that was prevented by US Federal Law Enforcement.

    hyperlink >>> cnbc.com - Foiled Terrorist Plot: Santa Monica Pier, Apr. 2019
     
    #83 dybmh, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  4. Lionel Refson

    Lionel Refson Member
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    But the "who" keeps changing. A moderate Imam or worshipper may turn at any time and they have the words of God right there to allow them to do so. A moderate may become radicalized because a fundamentalist christian attacked their mosque and vice-versa. the poison remains in the holy books IMO
     
  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    Life is complicated. Get over it.
     
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  6. allright

    allright Active Member

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  7. allright

    allright Active Member

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    To original poster

    I see so I should stop following Jesus and make you my God to tell me whats right or wrong

    No thanks

    Its very tempting but Ill stick with Jesus
     
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  8. Lionel Refson

    Lionel Refson Member
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    So what exactly, if your religion is so perfect and non-divisive and is beloved by the other abrahamic faiths AND venerated as the only true path is your objection to my proposal

    What FB has just done with Nick Clegg is interesting An independent court to help Fb and other social media platforms make decisions as to which content should be included/excluded. The courts rulings are binding
    Perhaps there should be an International court of moderate religious leaders , Abrahamic of course, whose job it is to interpret all those verses that encourage violence, hatred, divisiveness etc. and either change them, remove them or probably the best option, rule, in a binding way on the best way that they should be re-interpreted . The rulings would be binding on all Rabbis, Priests, Vicars, Imams and so on ...........and if the rules are broken that teacher/preacher is punished forthwith. Even if the verses cannot be re-interpreted then there should be added a modern day explanation why the verse is not appropriate in today's society. it would be a start
     
  9. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    You're saying that change should be forced on our religions from the outside. If we hold our faiths to be the one true path (and we most certainly do), then to change that faith based on the whims of any man whether inside or outside would be to compromise our faith and forfeit the truth. And, under the hypothetical case that we do decide to change the way we practice our faith, it will be us who decides, not outside forces trying to get us to bend the knee. Millions of Christians, Jews and Muslims have died due to the whims of governments who decided that they didn't like our religion. They gave us a choice to choose between our faith or our lives. We chose our faith. The 20th century was the bloodiest century in history for Christians as millions of us were slaughtered by oppressive regimes. Even now Christianity remains the most oppressed religion in the world as we suffer under the boot of terrorists in the Middle East and communist authoritarians in China. Your scheme will inevitably lead to tragedies repeating themselves that are still ongoing.

    You wouldn't decide that Hinduism or Buddhism should be forcibly changed to reflect your fancies. I imagine you wouldn't expect the same of the various paganisms and folk religions either. But if you decide that the Abrahamic religions should be open to being censored, altered and destroyed, then you open the floodgates for your cancerous authoritarianism to be inflicted on all other religions. If you decide that one religion doesn't have the freedom to believe as they do, then you've already decided that none of them should have that freedom. After all, is it really so different to force Buddhism to change than it is to force Christianity to change?
     
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  10. Lionel Refson

    Lionel Refson Member
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    A great answer............to a different issue. I am not forcing any change. Re-read what I posted above.

    If that religion believes that murdering the followers of another religion is acceptable in some way, or encourages their State to do so , then that is not acceptable and my proposal may just save lives. After all if the court i propose makes the changes and an oppressive middle-eastern regime continues to murder eg christians then it would be a great excuse to impose sanctions on them, especially because western powers would have to support the ruling of the court and moderate pressure would see to that
    Saving lives versus keeping the religions from external interference.......it is a no brainer!

    You are right. My only gripe is with the abrahamic religions because it is the abrahamic religions that hold within their teachings, violence, hatred and so on. There is little in christianity to be debated and removed, although I suppose the key issue is the assertion that Jesus was any more than a man. This is a fantastic thing for christians to believe but unfortunately Jews and Muslims do not and never will agree, until Jesus returns
     
  11. Lionel Refson

    Lionel Refson Member
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    This is a big clue for christians imo Matthew 18:2-5
    take the advice of these verses. read the Bible not with intellect but with the mind of a child ., naive, looking for God. jesus has been a light in my life, but he is not God
    Start at Gen 1 and then have a go at Am I Wrong To Think That There Is A God, But Not Operating In This World
    if you want to that is. I am not telling you to do anything, just suggesting sensitive bunch these christians!!)
     
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