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Return of soul (spirit) to body

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If Jesus was in heaven when Baha'u'llah was on earth then Jesus spirit was in heaven then.
There is the soul and the spirit and the Holy Spirit.

The words soul and spirit mean the same thing because the soul is the human spirit;
but the Holy Spirit is different, it is the Bounty of God.

So the soul (spirit) of Jesus ascended to heaven (as per Acts 1:9) and it has remained in heaven ever since.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Jesus was a Comforter because He brought the Holy Spirit to humanity.
When Jesus ascended to heaven, He sent another Comforter, as He had promised to do.
Jesus sent the Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity, again.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


Baha'u'llah was the Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised to send from the Father, since Jesus was with the Father in heaven. That is why we have this verse:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If we go out of existence then the wording in the New Testament is incorrect and it should say that God recreates us instead of resurrects us.
The Bible is correct. We do not go out of existence, our spirit is resurrected and passes from one world into another. After our spirit is resurrected it continues to live.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

What he wrote above is congruent with the Bible. The body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

In the other world, which is a spiritual world, the spirit (soul) continues to live and takes on a new form:

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
There is the soul and the spirit and the Holy Spirit.

The words soul and spirit mean the same thing because the soul is the human spirit;
but the Holy Spirit is different, it is the Bounty of God.

So the soul (spirit) of Jesus ascended to heaven (as per Acts 1:9) and it has remained in heaven ever since.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Jesus was a Comforter because He brought the Holy Spirit to humanity.
When Jesus ascended to heaven, He sent another Comforter, as He had promised to do.
Jesus sent the Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity, again.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


Baha'u'llah was the Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised to send from the Father, since Jesus was with the Father in heaven. That is why we have this verse:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
yet from my experience in the religious community, going back a half a century, the visions of the young and the dreams of the old were mostly discredited....."they" said such things were part of the previous dispensation and were only to validate the claims of the messiah, and thus were no longer required in our age, thus they were categorized as deceptive spirits, etc, basically negative, something of the adversary about all such claims.......[staunchly orthodox conservative traditionalists]
so anyone who came in with some kind of mystical experience of the "spiritual" variety, anything that smacked of "spiritualism" in any way, was automatically written off as being something for the fringe groups, [as the first response] the pentecostals and such airey fairy types prone to bouts of hysteria.....

this all appeared counter-intuitive to me as a young guy sorting all this religious business out...
all the more so when I found out such stories of mystical, spiritual things were "real".
and such matters are always referred to as personal affairs of the heart......
any genuine spiritual experience needs no witness to attest, or convince, as it is self-evident and those who see will see.
Just like any genuine breakthrough in someone's psycho-therapy will be life-altering and needs no announcements.
A genuine change is obvious.
the only one to prove anything to is one's self, by doing, which is the only real goal of self-improvement at the end of the day.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
I agree, but then we have to ask how we improve ourselves.
much the same quandry as how the heck will I sober up, seems an apt analogy to me ;)
another session of thinkaholics anonymous,
where everyone has a thinking problem
and has had way too much to think.
knowledge is heady stuff.
:)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What one verse does no say about death is no evidence for what other passages tell us.

That verse sets the stage for all that follows in the scriptures.
If God had a place like heaven or hell awaiting those who sinned, then why did he not warn Adam about it? All he told Adam was that death would result, not that an invisible part of him would go on living somewhere. Because Adam’s sin was unforgivable, where would his spirit go? He was responsible for the death of the entire human race. (Romans 5:12) God gave Adam no hint of any afterlife. The Bible teaches that everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life. Those who are incorrigibly wicked will sleep in death forever....in "gehenna".

They do speak of a living spirit part of man which survives death and sometimes it is even conscious.

Please share these scriptures and we can discuss them.

Jewish belief in the unconsciousness of death was recorded by Solomon in Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10...so please tell me how Solomon spoke of an afterlife if it was not possible to ‘think, plan or do’ anything in “Sheol”....the place where we all go. How can our “love perish”, if we go on living? “Love” is God’s most important quality....and ours. King David confirmed what his son Solomon was raised to believe. (Psalm 146:4) When we die, all our plans die with us.

Sheol or Hades in the New Testament (translated as "hell" at times) is the place where the spirit part of humans go at death. The grave is where the body goes.

Sheol and hades are equivalents according to the Septuagint. They mean the same place....the common grave...the place where we all go. “Hell” is nothing more terrifying than the grave....the place where all the dead “sleep”. Those in “hades” are not in an eternal hell, because “hades” gives up its dead. (Revelation 20:13)

Jesus calls both the “righteous and the unrighteousness” from the same place....their grave. (John 5:28-29) This is the general resurrection....bringing the dead back to life. The Bible speaks of two resurrections...one for the chosen ones, who will rule with Christ in heaven (Revelation 20:6) and one back to this life on earth for their subjects. (John 5:28-29)

Well what is it, do we go out of existence or do we sleep?
If we go out of existence then the wording in the New Testament is incorrect and it should say that God recreates us instead of resurrects us.

Jesus called it the “re-creation” or “regeneration” in Matthew 19:27-30......

“Then Peter responded and said to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?” And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms on account of My name, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last; and the last, first. (NASB)

Jesus told Peter about the regeneration or recreation to come when Jesus takes up his kingship. He did not do so straight after his return to heaven. (Psalm 110:1-2)

The Greek word pa·lin·ge·ne·siʹa is composed of elements that mean “again; anew; once more” and “birth; origin.” The ancient Jewish writer Philo used the term with reference to the renewal of the world after the Flood; Jewish historian Josephus used it regarding the reestablishment of Israel after the exile. Here in Matthew’s account, it refers to the time when the rule of Christ and his corulers will bring to the earth a renewal of the perfect conditions enjoyed by the first humans before they sinned. (Revelation 21:2-4)
That is the purpose of the Kingdom.

Moreover if there is nothing that goes from this life to the resurrection, the essence of the person, then what is recreated is no more than a copy or the dead person, not the same person.
God knows me and could do the same thing you suggest right now and there would be me and a copy of me, both claiming to be me.

What makes you “you”? Is it your your body? Your brain? Or your personality? What constitutes your personality? You as a person are so much more than just your body or your genetics.....”you” are the accumulation of your life experiences....there is no one like “you”. So are identical twins just the same person duplicated? Or are they simply different people in the same genetically identical body?

God can recreate a body as a easily as he created Adam, and he can restore all of our memories and personality traits in order for us to identify ourselves, and for others to identify us too.

If you want to be pedantic about it, every cell in your body is replaced every 7 years, so there is not a single cell in your body that goes on living. All are replaced or regenerated including the ones that form the brain where our memories and personalities reside. God does not require a single molecule of our original body in order to recreate us. Why are you putting limits on him?

We have a classic example of a resurrection when Jesus raised his friend Lazarus. Where did Jesus say Lazarus was?

“.....and after this He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going so that I may awaken him from sleep.” The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will come out of it.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about actual sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus died”. (John 11:11-14 NASB)

In the account it was made clear that Jesus waited for Lazarus to die so as to demonstrate what the resurrection literally means to those who would witness it. (And us who would read about it.)
If Lazarus was enjoying some kind of blissful spiritual existence somewhere else, why would Jesus bring him back to this life, only to die again later? What favor was Jesus doing him?

We cannot override what the scriptures teach in order to justify our natural desire to go on living. It was the devil who told the woman “you surely will not die”...it was God who told Adam that they would.....so where does this “immortal soul” idea come from? Not God.....and not the Bible.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Isn't return of soul to a body, reincarnation?

Reincarnation is not believed to be true in Abrahamic religions.

Returning the soul on the day of Resurrection is a form of reincarnation philosophically speaking.

Then, how Resurrection of dead, which is return of soul, is a correct understanding of Resurrection in Abrahamic religions?
I think you are missing the metaphor. The return of the soul to the body, is being present in the world, right now. Not worrying about the future. Not living in the past. The "resurrection", is awakening to this body, in this life, in this moment. It's awakening from a life that was dead to the world, but now alive in it.

You look to the future for such a hope. When it's yours already.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I think you are missing the metaphor. The return of the soul to the body, is being present in the world, right now. Not worrying about the future. Not living in the past. The "resurrection", is awakening to this body, in this life, in this moment. It's awakening from a life that was dead to the world, but now alive in it.
That is another way of looking at it and it would also fit with the Baha'i beliefs about the meaning of Resurrection.

No waiting is necessary. ;)

“Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God.”

The full explanation is on this link The Great Resurrection
 

SeekerOnThePath

On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam
This video is still the best actual explanation of what reincarnation ACTUALLY IS, in comparison to western myths about what Christians think it is:

 

BlueSky95

Member
it appears that such a doctrine is "recent" [added later], and if one looks back further, reincarnation was the common accepted scheme of things for many of these traditions [including early christianity]

That's what I heard too, it was a common belief at that time. I myself, don't really know..
 
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