Return of Jesus

[wizanda]

Pls go back and read.

43:6-7 And how many a prophet We sent among the former peoples, But there would not come to them a prophet except that they used to ridicule him.

Contexts is about prophets being rejected, when coming with signs, and still being mocked, then being destroyed for it in 43:8.

In 43:21-31 is about people following previous revelation, and not accepting the new, even when sent with signs.

In 43:46-56 Moses has signs to Pharaoh, and the destruction of Egyptians was as a warning to the whole of mankind.

43:57-59 is about Yehoshua ben Yoseph being a sign to the Children of Israel in the past, and your grammar is right there.

43:60-61 is an event to come, as it says it is a sign of the Hour, that means Judgement day... Plus it tells us follow Muhammad's Message, as we know Judgement is coming.

43:60 And if We willed, We could have made some of you angels to be successors on the earth.

43:61 And he was a lesson for the Hour. So have no doubt about it. And follow Me; this is a straight path.

43:62 And let not the devil repel you; he is to you a clear enemy.

This is a futuristic timeline stating it will happen, and 'when he came' is correct English grammar.

Though I can't read the Arabic fluently, so can not adjudicate fully; clearly most of the other contexts is applicable to a future timeline.

43:63 And when Jesus came with the proofs, he said: “I have come to you with the wisdom, and to clarify some of the matters in which you dispute. So be aware of God and obey me.”

If we do a word search of the phrase 'matters in which you dispute', this context is repeated throughout the Quran; it is the case of the identity of Yeshua, both scripturally and theologically - that needs to be settled by the Messiah.

43:64 “God is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. This is a straight path.”

What needs fixing is the theological structuring globally, that there is only One religious understanding, and only One Source to reality in all religion the same.

43:65 The Confederates disputed among themselves. So, woe to those who have been wicked from the retribution of a painful Day.

43:66 Do they only wait for the Hour to come to them suddenly, while they do not perceive?

43:67 Friends on that Day will become enemies of one another, except for the righteous.

People like previously do not believe the Hour is here, yet as Yeshua said in Matthew 25:1-13 he comes at the Midnight Hour as a thief before Armageddon (Revelation 16:15-16, Revelation 3:3).

43:68 “O My servants, you will have no fear on this Day, nor will you grieve.”

43:69 They are the ones who believed in Our revelations, and had submitted.

43:70 “Enter Paradise, together with your spouses, in happiness.”

43:71 They will be served with golden trays and cups, and they will find everything the self desires and the eyes wish for, and you will abide therein.

43:72 And this is Paradise that you have inherited, in return for your works.

43:73 In it you will have all kinds of fruits, from which you eat.

Those who accept all the revelations globally as the Quran instructed will be blessed, and allowed into the Messianic Age.

43:74 Indeed, the criminals will be in the punishment of Hell, abiding eternally.

43:75 It will not be allowed to subside for them, and they, therein, are in despair.

43:76 And We did not wrong them, but it was they who were the wrongdoers.

43:77 And they will call, "O Malik, let your Lord put an end to us!" He will say, "Indeed, you will remain."

Those who don't accept all the world's religious texts, and reject the Messiah as King, will be put into the Pits of Hell.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

43:6-7 And how many a prophet We sent among the former peoples, But there would not come to them a prophet except that they used to ridicule him.

Contexts is about prophets being rejected, when coming with signs, and still being mocked, then being destroyed for it in 43:8.

In 43:21-31 is about people following previous revelation, and not accepting the new, even when sent with signs.

In 43:46-56 Moses has signs to Pharaoh, and the destruction of Egyptians was as a warning to the whole of mankind.

43:57-59 is about Yehoshua ben Yoseph being a sign to the Children of Israel in the past, and your grammar is right there.

43:60-61 is an event to come, as it says it is a sign of the Hour, that means Judgement day... Plus it tells us follow Muhammad's Message, as we know Judgement is coming.

This is a futuristic timeline stating it will happen, and 'when he came' is correct English grammar.

Though I can't read the Arabic fluently, so can not adjudicate fully; clearly most of the other contexts is applicable to a future timeline.

If we do a word search of the phrase 'matters in which you dispute', this context is repeated throughout the Quran; it is the case of the identity of Yeshua, both scripturally and theologically - that needs to be settled by the Messiah.

What needs fixing is the theological structuring globally, that there is only One religious understanding, and only One Source to reality in all religion the same.

People like previously do not believe the Hour is here, yet as Yeshua said in Matthew 25:1-13 he comes at the Midnight Hour as a thief before Armageddon (Revelation 16:15-16, Revelation 3:3).

Those who accept all the revelations globally as the Quran instructed will be blessed, and allowed into the Messianic Age.

Those who don't accept all the world's religious texts, and reject the Messiah as King, will be put into the Pits of Hell.

In my opinion.

Not a single verse says "Jesus is coming back".

 

[InvestigateTruth]

From us and them who believe in a return of Jesus and of the divinity of the book called Qur'an, what is the clear-cut proof from the text of the Qur'an that there is a return Isabnu Maryama, Jesus the son of Mary.

Not inference, clear-cut proof. Interesting exploration to ponder over.

Quran 2:210 proves the Christ is Spirit of God, and will come down:

"What can they expect but that God should come unto them in the shadow of a cloud, and the angels too? But the thing is decreed, and unto God do things return."

Now, in Bible, the apostles of Jesus ask Him about His return. Jesus replies that He comes down from heaven with the cloud. Now, Quran also promises that God comes down with the cloud. If you notice both statements are the same, when one considers that Christ is the Spirit of God. To imagine that God Himself physically comes down is impossible.

 

[firedragon]

Quran 2:210 proves the Christ is Spirit of God, and will come down:

"What can they expect but that God should come unto them in the shadow of a cloud, and the angels too? But the thing is decreed, and unto God do things return."

Now, in Bible, the apostles of Jesus ask Him about His return. Jesus replies that He comes down from heaven with the cloud. Now, Quran also promises that God comes down with the cloud. If you notice both statements are the same, when one considers that Christ is the Spirit of God. To imagine that God Himself physically comes down is impossible.

Quran 2:210! Is that the verse you quote as evidence that Jesus will return?

1. That verse doesnt say anything about Jesus being a spirit of God. And please dont quote others verses where it says "Ayyattuka biroohi", which means supported with the holy spirit not "YOU ARE THE SPIRIT". So what you just did was some of the most stupendous misquoting of anyones text.
2. It doesnt have anything to do with Christ.
3. Bible says "epi tone nefelone", "upon the clouds", not "fi zulalin minal gamami", "in the shadows" or "shadowed" in the clowds. And you missed the angels part. Shadowed in the angels as well.
4. I actually thought you have read the Quran but you have not. Because this verse doesnt say God is coming down or anyone else is coming down. It says "no one is coming down" because this is asking 'are you waiting for this' and then it goes onto say "we have given signs" that means you keep waiting it wont happen.
5. Bible is irrelevant to the thread.

That was not a good reference.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Quran 2:210! Is that the verse you quote as evidence that Jesus will return?

1. That verse doesnt say anything about Jesus being a spirit of God. And please dont quote others verses where it says "Ayyattuka biroohi", which means supported with the holy spirit not "YOU ARE THE SPIRIT". So what you just did was some of the most stupendous misquoting of anyones text.
2. It doesnt have anything to do with Christ.
3. Bible says "epi tone nefelone", "upon the clouds", not "fi zulalin minal gamami", "in the shadows" or "shadowed" in the clowds. And you missed the angels part. Shadowed in the angels as well.
4. I actually thought you have read the Quran but you have not. Because this verse doesnt say God is coming down or anyone else is coming down. It says "no one is coming down" because this is asking 'are you waiting for this' and then it goes onto say "we have given signs" that means you keep waiting it wont happen.
5. Bible is irrelevant to the thread.

That was not a good reference.

In so many Hadithes, shia imams and Muhammad refer to Jesus as Spirit of God!
This is also in the Holy Bible, a Book which holy Quran confirms it to be from God.
Moreover, to understand Quran, we need Hadithes. We cannot make up an interpretation. To know the interpretation of the verse I quoted, we need to see how the infallible Imams or Muhammad interpreted that. If you search you would see they interpreted this verse "Mahdi comes to Iraq". This is how Imam Bagher interpreted this verse. So, what is meant by God coming down in clouds, is Mahdi who appears in Iraq, who expresses the Will of God. Now, there are many Hadithes that states there is no Mahdi, except Christ!

 

[firedragon]

In so many Hadithes, shia imams and Muhammad refer to Jesus as Spirit of God!
This is also in the Holy Bible, a Book which holy Quran confirms it to be from God.
Moreover, to understand Quran, we need Hadithes. We cannot make up an interpretation. To know the interpretation of the verse I quoted, we need to see how the infallible Imams or Muhammad interpreted that. If you search you would see they interpreted this verse "Mahdi comes to Iraq". This is how Imam Bagher interpreted this verse. So, what is meant by God coming down in clouds, is Mahdi who appears in Iraq, who expresses the Will of God. Now, there are many Hadithes that states there is no Mahdi, except Christ!

Not relevant brother.

 

[firedragon]

In so many Hadithes, shia imams and Muhammad refer to Jesus as Spirit of God!
This is also in the Holy Bible, a Book which holy Quran confirms it to be from God.
Moreover, to understand Quran, we need Hadithes. We cannot make up an interpretation. To know the interpretation of the verse I quoted, we need to see how the infallible Imams or Muhammad interpreted that. If you search you would see they interpreted this verse "Mahdi comes to Iraq". This is how Imam Bagher interpreted this verse. So, what is meant by God coming down in clouds, is Mahdi who appears in Iraq, who expresses the Will of God. Now, there are many Hadithes that states there is no Mahdi, except Christ!

There is a thread I opened called hadith evidence for return of jesus or something to that nature.

 

[Muffled]

From us and them who believe in a return of Jesus and of the divinity of the book called Qur'an, what is the clear-cut proof from the text of the Qur'an that there is a return Isabnu Maryama, Jesus the son of Mary.

Not inference, clear-cut proof. Interesting exploration to ponder over.

I don't believe I can understand why one would need to consult the Qu'ran at all on this because all the information that is needed is in the Bible.

 

[firedragon]

I don't believe I can understand why one would need to consult the Qu'ran at all on this because all the information that is needed is in the Bible.

Because the post addresses those who believe in the Quran.

 

[Muffled]

The intent of the OP made clear. Mind already fixed in meaning, it is the Spirit that returns, not a person named Jesus.

Now read the Quran and see if it says the spirit of faith will die and then will be renewed.

Regards Tony

I believe this is a false Bahai belief that contradicts the Bible.

 

[Muffled]

Because the post addresses those who believe in the Quran.

I believe if Muslims only believe what the Qur'an says then they are just like the Jews who only believe what the OT says. You only listen to God when it suits your purpose.

 

[Muffled]

Sorry, I re-read my wording, I am still not saying it how I should say it. All I should have offered is;

I see as it is not a body we look for, I would read the Quran and see if it says that the spirit of faith will die and then will be renewed.

Regards Tony

I believe that still leaves you in contradiction to the Bible which does state a bodily return of Jesus.

 

[Riders]

From us and them who believe in a return of Jesus and of the divinity of the book called Qur'an, what is the clear-cut proof from the text of the Qur'an that there is a return Isabnu Maryama, Jesus the son of Mary.

Not inference, clear-cut proof. Interesting exploration to ponder over.

I have no information on the book of quran at all. I wish Jesus would come back so i could leave this terrible earth.

I do not trust Muslim or Christian beliefs however.

 

[firedragon]

I have no information on the book of quran at all. I wish Jesus would come back so i could leave this terrible earth.

I do not trust Muslim or Christian beliefs however.

I understand.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe that still leaves you in contradiction to the Bible which does state a bodily return of Jesus.

That would be a contradiction of interpretation, where Jesus clearly proves the flesh amounts to nothing.

It is not a contradiction of Spirit, because the Spirit of Truth can be given to another, to be known by a "new Name" , a Name the Lord will give. A Name that only those that can "overcome" will embrace.

Those who truly know the Son can know the Father. It is not the flesh of Jesus that brings that understanding, it is the Spirit that was known 2000 years ago as "Christ" (the Annointed One)

Today it is Known as the "Glory of God", the "Father", Baha'u'llah.

You can choose to see it as a Biblical contradiction, I see it as Biblical fulfilment.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have no information on the book of quran at all. I wish Jesus would come back so i could leave this terrible earth.

I do not trust Muslim or Christian beliefs however.

It happened, it is not time to leave, but time to do what was asked and that is to build the unity of the entire human race, fist by changing ourselves then building loving communities.

Stay happy, stay happy, be full of joy, the day awaited is here, the greatest of all days to live in;

Malachi 4:5 "See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes."

That was the Bab (Gate)

That is what I can offer, no obligation, just a gift.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There is a thread I opened called hadith evidence for return of jesus or something to that nature.

I believe it is not proper to use Hadithes without Quran, or interprete Quran without sayings of the Prophet and Holy Imams. The proper interpretation is Only and only if, Quran is interpreted with aid of Sayings of the Prophet and Holy imams. To separate hadithes, and Quran is not proper as I understand it.

This is fundamentally said and taught in the Quran.
Let's go back a little and understand the concept of interpretation in the Quran.

The Quran, states that, everytime God sent a prophet, He taught interpretations of Hadithes to the children and certain followers of the prophets of the past in order to complete His favor upon Them. I think you know the related verses, so I won't quote.
Now, accordingly, God must have done the same thing in Islam. Because God calls the Quran the best Hadith, which basically means, even the Quran is a Hadith. So, in order for God to complete His favour upon followers of Muhammad, He must have taught interpretations of Quran which is the best hadith. In fact Allah in Quran says, He revealed the Quran, and after that it is Him who will explain it. In another words, in order for God to complete His favor to the Muslims, He must teach interpretations of the Quran in addition to the Quran, otherwise He would have left Muslims with a Book, but without its correct interpretation, and thus they may misinterpret it. So, how and when Allah taught interpretations of the Quran? He said in the Quran that He gave this knowledge to the Household of Muhammad, which included Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Fatima and Muhammad. These 5, and the rest of holy imams are the Ones who were taught the interpretation of Quran. Thus to understand the Quran, we must refer to the sayings of those who are well-grounded in knowledge.
So, when Allah says, Allah comes down in the clouds, we need to see how Muhammad or Holy Imams interpreted this verse. And the way, Imam Bagher interpreted it, is to say, it is Mahdi who appears in Iraq. We cannot make up any interpretation, because Allah did not teach us interpretation. He taught that to holy Imams.

 

[firedragon]

Let's go back a little and understand the concept of interpretation in the Quran.

So you are an ardent believer of the thafsir raaiy.

Brother. Lakum dheenukum waliyadhdheen.

Not relevant to the OP.

 

[Muffled]

I have no information on the book of quran at all. I wish Jesus would come back so i could leave this terrible earth.

I do not trust Muslim or Christian beliefs however.

When you die I believe you could go to Heaven if you knew the way. That is what my wife did when she died because she doesn't like the evils of this world either.

 

[Muffled]

That would be a contradiction of interpretation, where Jesus clearly proves the flesh amounts to nothing.

It is not a contradiction of Spirit, because the Spirit of Truth can be given to another, to be known by a "new Name" , a Name the Lord will give. A Name that only those that can "overcome" will embrace.

Those who truly know the Son can know the Father. It is not the flesh of Jesus that brings that understanding, it is the Spirit that was known 2000 years ago as "Christ" (the Annointed One)

Today it is Known as the "Glory of God", the "Father", Baha'u'llah.

You can choose to see it as a Biblical contradiction, I see it as Biblical fulfilment.

Regards Tony

I believe that is out of context and most likely misquoted since a search did not find those words.

I believe that can happen but did not.

It is a contradiction and seeing it differently means you are deceiving yourself.