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Featured Return of Jesus

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    From us and them who believe in a return of Jesus and of the divinity of the book called Qur'an, what is the clear-cut proof from the text of the Qur'an that there is a return Isabnu Maryama, Jesus the son of Mary.

    Not inference, clear-cut proof. Interesting exploration to ponder over.
     
  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The person who comes will know from an early age, that Yeshua didn't go around saying "I Am" all the time about him self; which is warned about in all 3 Synoptic Gospels, and shows the Gospel of John is not his words.

    Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5, Luke 21:8 He said, “Watch out that you don’t get led astray, for many will come in my name, saying, "I Am (G1473 G1510)" and "The time is at hand". Therefore don’t follow them."

    Then we would expect the person to know how Paul contradicts Yeshua, and how Simon was called the Stone of Stumbling.

    As the Quran states that Yeshua will come, and show how he didn't claim to be God; these texts need adjudicating as falsified by the Pharisees, and being Anti-Christ's teachings.

    The other clear proof is the texts correlate one name for the Messiah around the world, and the Messiah will know this sacred name since birth; which will then unite the religions under the Oneness of God.

    Lets have a look from the Quran what criteria we feel need to be fulfilled, in my memory:
    • There is the Messiah shows from the texts he said not to worship him,
    • He has the power to unite everyone,
    • Has a method to defeat the false religion,
    • Will establish God's Laws on earth.
    Let me know what you feel needs fulfilling, and we can look at the world's religious texts to justify what is meant to be fulfilled.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Clear-cut proof from the Quran is requested. So thanks for the comment, but not relevant to the post.
     
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  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Jesus the personality doesn't return but the Spirit of Comfort which will be with us always as was with him. Notice it doesn't come from Jesus but from the Father.


    John 15:26
    But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:


    step, step into the light of the world, the kingdom of God.


    Matthew 28:19-20

    29 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
     
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  5. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Would I be correct in believing that the question you ask is a question that only Muslims and maybe some Baha'i could/would/should answer?
     
  6. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    As just stating can you please list which Quranic verses you feel need to be fulfilled, as I just stated what I know precisely.

    I admit I could have included each verse from the Quran; yet I didn't want to act like anyone wasn't aware of the verses stated in the Quran.
    3:55 And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so I will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

    4:159: And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.

    29:2-3 Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried? But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars.


    This is as a start from the Quran, where we can see the Messiah comes at the End of Time before the resurrection of the dead, to show the false understandings.

    If people bothered to read some of the world's religions, they'd see many state the Bringer of Truth (Saoshyant/Kalki), comes to reveal where people were wrong, before the Judgement Day Fire of Frashokereti/Samvartaka.

    43:60-61 And if We please, We could make among you angels to be successors in the land. And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.

    21:39-40 If those who disbelieved but knew the time when they will not avert the Fire from their faces or from their backs and they will not be aided... Rather, it will come to them unexpectedly and bewilder them, and they will not be able to repel it, nor will they be reprieved.

    Thus here it states there is no warning of the End of Days Quantum Fire, it just happens in an moment; yet what causes Allah to come here is the Final Battle, as it says here:

    [5.64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

    39:69 And the earth will shine with the light of its Lord, and the record [of deeds] will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought, and it will be judged between them in truth, and they will not be wronged.


    Thus it says Christ comes back as an angel before the Day (43:60-61), and then the Resurrection of the Dead, with Holy fire that Restores the Enlightened Saints.

    Since it was God who told me as a child these things are real, that are found in your religious texts books; personally find it crazy to assume it is all false.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #6 wizanda, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  7. CriticalThinking

    CriticalThinking Quranist

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    Can you please show exactly where the verses you mentioned declares that Jesus will return

    also, there is a verse in the Quran where God asks Jesus about those who said that he is God and it doesn't mention the second coming at all

    [5:116-117] And Allah will say, "O Jesus son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Take me and my mother as gods rather than Allah?'" He will say, "Glory be to You! It is not for me to say what I have no right to. Had I said it, You would have known it. You know what is in my soul, and I do not know what is in Your soul. You are the Knower of the hidden. 116 I only told them what You commanded me: that you shall worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I was among them; but when You took me to Yourself, You became the Watcher over them—You are Witness over everything. 117
     
  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The trial of those who followed the false teachings is held at the End of Time, and Yeshua stands as a witness against them.

    4:159: And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.

    Therefore it says that statement is at the End before Judgement Day, where the books are opened here on earth.

    Allah doesn't open books, Allah is the Source of reality; the Messengers are there on the day of resurrection, and open the books, where people are judged by the things within them.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    You are right in a very broad sense. But you know i must admit that people have sectarian sentiments and have sectarian arguments about many aspects. You get some Muslims in the United states amongst the black community who claim the Quran is the scripture but also believe the pentateuch in the bible as Gods word just like the Jews. They also believe in the return of the Messiah based on their own islamic concepts quite different from other Muslims. When you say "Muslims" these factions have different opinions about that. Thats why i used that broad sense of "Quran". And there are some who dont call themselves "Muslims" but they believe in the Quran only and call themselves "Muahidheena". Yep. We are sectarian mate. So i thought its better to be as neutral and as specific about the book i wish to discuss as much as one could. ;)

    And of course the Bahai's too as they claim the Quran is Gods word.
     
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  10. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Not about yawmal kiyamath.
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot. Although, my question was about the text of the Quran.
     
  12. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    @wizanda quoted the verse 4.159

    There's also :

    43.59 [Jesus] was not but a servant upon whom We bestowed favor, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel.
    43.61 And indeed, [Jesus] will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.

    There's much more hadiths about the return of Jesus and the antichrist than verses about it from the Quran as you already know.
     
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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    There is not a single verse in the Quran that says Jesus will return to this world in any manner or form. Only ahadith.

    You have quoted 43:61 and within brackets it says " a sign for".
     
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  14. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    What does that mean for you that he will be a "sign of the Hour" ?
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Brother. It doesnt say Jesus is coming back. What is the sign of knowing the hour. It doesnt say "sign of the hour". If you know arabic, it says "ilmul lissaathi". You know what ilm means. It means knowledge or science. Not sign. And if you wish to make Jesus a sign, it is still a sign of the knowledge of the hour. Ilmul lissaathi. Knowledge of the hour.

    Nothing about anyone coming back.
     
  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Veteran Member
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    The intent of the OP made clear. Mind already fixed in meaning, it is the Spirit that returns, not a person named Jesus.

    Now read the Quran and see if it says the spirit of faith will die and then will be renewed.

    Regards Tony
     
  17. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Great. Thanks.
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Veteran Member
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    Sorry, I re-read my wording, I am still not saying it how I should say it. All I should have offered is;

    I see as it is not a body we look for, I would read the Quran and see if it says that the spirit of faith will die and then will be renewed.

    Regards Tony
     
  19. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Ok so literally "knowledge of the hour" not "sign" if you prefer to translate word by word.
    Still what means for you that Jesus will be/is "the knowledge of the hour" ? What means this verse for you.

    You also didn't explain the verse 4.159 what means that "all the people of the Book will believe in him before his death" ?
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Its ilm. Knowledge. So its simple.

    Also brother, 159 is about Jesus and his followers. Read properly. It says "Wa yawmal qiyamathi". It says "and".

    "Among the people of the book are few who would have acknowledged him before his death, and on the day of Resurrection he will be witness against them"

    Doesnt mean he is coming back.
     
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