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Resurrection of the Dead

S-word

Well-Known Member
Okay, I'm even more confused now, Bruce. Do you understand the word "spirit" and "soul" to mean the same thing. Maybe that's part of my problem in understanding you, because I don't. I believe that the spirit is the essence of who we are, the life force of our existence. I believe that when the spirit enters into a physical body (probably at birth or shortly before), that body becomes "a living soul." When a person dies, the spirit leaves the body, rendering the body lifeless. The spirit, however, does not die, but continues to exist outside the body as a cognizant entity. When a person is resurrected, that spirit once again enters the body. This time, however, the body has been made immortal, so the result is not only a living soul, but an immortal being that will never again be subject to disease or death. Keeping my beliefs in mind, could you tell me how your compare. I find the Baha'i Faith so interesting but there is so much I don't know about it.


Revelation 20: 4-5, "Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given power to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been executed because they proclaimed the truth that Jesus revealed and the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or it's image, nor had they received the mark of the beast on the forhead or their hands. They came to life and ruled as kings with Christ (The anointed one) for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first raising of the dead etc.
The first resurrection of the dead to be reborn on earth as a new species over which death has no power, has not yet happened. But as we are now at the close of the sixth day, and the Lord's day is about to begin, we are soon to witness the rebirth of the body of our saviour on this earth. Rather than re-writting this, my post, which can be found in "Does anyone care about 2012," I will just copy it into this thread.

1 Peter 4: 6, That is why the Good New was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God (the greatest of all gatherers) lives. With the death of Jesus over whom death had no power and who was obedient to who he was, the graves of the righteous were opened and all the spirits who had fallen asleep in righteousness and paid the blood price for any mistakes that they had made in their lives, and who had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham, were awaken from their righteous sleep, and three days later, on the day of the resurrection of the body of Jesus they entered the Holy City and showed themselves to many.

These were the spirits that were poured out on the believers as little tongues of fire, where, from within the body of mankind they have been gathering for the last 2,000 years, all the spirits of their descendants who have fallen asleep in righteousness, soon they are to be reborn on earth in physical bodies. Each of that required number of spiritual Jews and Gentiles, who are the compilition of all the righteous spirits and who grew in wisdom, knowledge and insight with each cell that was gathered to them, will choose for themselves an heir to their position in the body of our immortal saviour, one who is obedient to 'Who They Are,' one who is prepared to die that their indwelling Father might live on earth through them.

He, their ancestral and indwelling Father, who is but the compilation of all the righteous spirits that have been gathered to him, and who had all paid the blood price for the mistakes of their lives on earth, then begins to die in the process of involution while his chosen heir dies in the process of evolution.

Releasing from the least to greatest of the spirits that rest in he, the indwelling Father diminishes into nothingness while his chosen heir evolves in Wisdom, knowledge and insight with each awakening, until He, who was the compilation of the enclosure of all those resting righteous spirits, is reborn on earth as He who has become the compilation and the enclosure of all those awakened spirits. These are they of the first resurrection who will take the thrones that have been prepared for them, who will be gathered at the second and more Glorious Temple of God on earth , the fiery prophet, who, girded and clothed in fire will serve God before the body of Adam (mankind) into all eternity, and they, the required number of Jews and Gentiles of the first resurrection will rule for 1,000 years, the Sabbath, the Lord's day, or the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died on that day at the age of 930.
 
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BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member

Katzpur, hi! :)

Rather than try to explain this myself, I'm providing you with the relevant passage from the Baha'i scriptures where these terms are explained:

Chapter 55:
SOUL, SPIRIT AND MIND

Question.—What is the difference between the mind, spirit and soul?
Answer.—It has been before explained that spirit is universally divided into five categories: the vegetable spirit, the animal spirit, the human spirit, the spirit of faith, and the Holy Spirit.
The vegetable spirit is the power of growth which is brought about in the seed through the influence of other existences.
The animal spirit is the power of all the senses, which is realized from the composition and mingling of elements; when this composition decomposes, the power also perishes and becomes annihilated. It may be likened to this lamp: when the oil, wick and fire are combined, it is lighted; and when this combination is dissolved—that is to say, when the combined parts are separated from one another—the lamp also is extinguished.
The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished 209 and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.
But the mind is the power of the human spirit. Spirit is the lamp; mind is the light which shines from the lamp. Spirit is the tree, and the mind is the fruit. Mind is the perfection of the spirit and is its essential quality, as the sun’s rays are the essential necessity of the sun.
This explanation, though short, is complete; therefore, reflect upon it, and if God wills, you may become acquainted with the details.

—Some Answered Questions, p. 208

Best regards, :)

Bruce
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Katzpur, hi! :)

Rather than try to explain this myself, I'm providing you with the relevant passage from the Baha'i scriptures where these terms are explained:


Chapter 55:


SOUL, SPIRIT AND MIND


Question.—What is the difference between the mind, spirit and soul?
Answer.—It has been before explained that spirit is universally divided into five categories: the vegetable spirit, the animal spirit, the human spirit, the spirit of faith, and the Holy Spirit.
The vegetable spirit is the power of growth which is brought about in the seed through the influence of other existences.
The animal spirit is the power of all the senses, which is realized from the composition and mingling of elements; when this composition decomposes, the power also perishes and becomes annihilated. It may be likened to this lamp: when the oil, wick and fire are combined, it is lighted; and when this combination is dissolved—that is to say, when the combined parts are separated from one another—the lamp also is extinguished.
The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished 209 and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.
But the mind is the power of the human spirit. Spirit is the lamp; mind is the light which shines from the lamp. Spirit is the tree, and the mind is the fruit. Mind is the perfection of the spirit and is its essential quality, as the sun’s rays are the essential necessity of the sun.
This explanation, though short, is complete; therefore, reflect upon it, and if God wills, you may become acquainted with the details.

—Some Answered Questions, p. 208

Best regards, :)

Bruce

Body, soul and spirit, equates to body, heart and mind. Without the divine animating principle that pervades the entire Cosmos, the body is no more than an inert lump of meat that had been converted from dirt and water, and the soul or animating life force is in the blood or the heart, while the spirit is the essence of the 'I AM,' or 'Who You Are,' the invisible personality who develops in the animated body.

When Jesus, in referrence to the life giving bread that came down from heaven said, that to have life, we must eat of his body and drink of his blood, many of his followers deserted him, because of what he had said, but then turning to the faithfull he explained to then that the physical body and blood could do nothing in the way of the salvation which lay in the words that he spoke, for as he said, the flesh is of no use at all it is the spirit that gives life and my words are spirit, not that they were his words, for the man Jesus spoke not word of his own authority, but only the words that came down to him from the only exception of all mankind to have ascened to the ends of time and to have witnessed the end of all thing, when the heavens rolled up as a scroll and the elements becoming so excited burned up and fell as Massive columns of fire into the Great Abyss or Black Hole which is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, even the 'Son of Man' who IS in heaven.
 
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VEW

Member
There are only two men in the Bible who were taken to heaven without experiencing death, the first was Enoch, from the old world which was destroyed by water,

VEW says: The Bible couldn't be saying that Enoch was taken to heaven. Rather Enoch’s life was evidently simply cut short while he was having a vision. This is based on Paul’s remarks at Hebrews 11:5, which reads: "By faith Enoch was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him; for before his transference he had the witness that he had pleased God well." That these words do not mean that Enoch was taken to heaven, is apparent from the following Scriptural testimony:

At Matthew 11:11 are recorded Jesus’ words that there had not risen one greater than John the Baptist, yet a lesser one in the kingdom of heaven would be greater than John, indicating that John would not be in heaven. If not John, then certainly not Enoch. Further, we have Jesus’ plain words at John 3:13, that up to his day it was true that ‘no man had ascended into heaven,’ not even Enoch. Only by means of Jesus’ death was a new and living way to get to heaven opened up. Jesus has become "the one who is first in all things," including entrance into heaven.—Col. 1:18; Heb. 10:20.

More than that, the apostle Paul, in Hebrews, chapter 11, discusses such faithful ones as Enoch, Noah and Abraham. In verses thirty-nine and forty of this chapter, Paul contrasts the men of faith before the Christian congregation with those who, like himself, were a part of it: "And yet all these, although they had witness borne to them through their faith, did not get the fulfillment of the promise, as God foresaw something better for us, in order that they might not be made perfect apart from us." In other words, only after the members of the Christian congregation receive their reward will these faithful men of old receive theirs.

Therefore, since we cannot conclude that by Enoch’s being transferred is meant his being taken to heaven, to what does it have reference? Evidently in Enoch’s case death came differently than to the rest of mankind, for which reason it is written that he "was transferred so as not to see death."

The Greek word at Hebrews 11:5 rendered "transferred" in the New World Translation has the meaning of "transfer," "transport," or "change the place of." It seems that the experience of the apostle Paul throws light on this matter, since he was transferred or caught up to the third heaven; whether in the body or out of the body, he was not able to say. In this state he caught a vision of the future spiritual paradise of the Christian congregation. (2 Cor. 12:1-4)

Apparently it was in a similar state of spiritual rapture or ecstasy, while having a vision of the earthly paradise (Enoch not knowing anything about a spiritual one), that God took Enoch away or put him to sleep. He did not see death in that he did not see his own death approaching, and therefore Enoch did not experience any pangs of death. In his instance the resurrection will mean a transition from his vision to the reality of the New World life he was privileged to see....VEW
 
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tomspug

Absorbant
If you want to call spiritual "figurative"... I suppose I should have said "Physical" freedom from death, as in resurrection of the body, which is what the Bible refers to.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
The Greek word at Hebrews 11:5 rendered "transferred" in the New World Translation has the meaning of "transfer," "transport," or "change the place of." It seems that the experience of the apostle Paul throws light on this matter, since he was transferred or caught up to the third heaven; whether in the body or out of the body, he was not able to say. In this state he caught a vision of the future spiritual paradise of the Christian congregation. (2 Cor. 12:1-4)

Apparently it was in a similar state of spiritual rapture or ecstasy, while having a vision of the earthly paradise (Enoch not knowing anything about a spiritual one), that God took Enoch away or put him to sleep. He did not see death in that he did not see his own death approaching, and therefore Enoch did not experience any pangs of death. In his instance the resurrection will mean a transition from his vision to the reality of the New World life he was privileged to see....VEW

Translate: To change from one form to another while maintaining the essential essence of the original. Transpose: To change or transport from one place to another. Enoch the 365 day old unblemished Lamb of God, at the age of 365 was transported into heaven and translated from a physical being of corruptible matter into a brilliant and glorious being of blinding light.

Thought to be lost for millennia after being banned in the second century by such early Christian authorities as Jerome, Hilary and Augustine because of its popularity with the early Christians, The Book of Enoch the Prophet remains one of the oldest extant mystical documents. It’s referred to in the Zobar and the Epistle of Jude who is the brother of James, the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision in Jerusalem, who quotes verbatim from the book, which is known to have been in circulation for two centuries before Jesus, and was cherished by the Greek speaking Jews in Galilee and Asia Minor in the centuries following, until it was banned by the builders of the house of dominion who rejected the most important foundation stone of all Scripture, which has turned out to be the most important of all. Because the words of righteous Enoch are quoted in the book of the last Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs to their descendants who had all died in Egypt and the fact that Moses was a prince of Egypt, and would have been schooled by the greatest minds in the land, and after the Shepherd Kings were expelled from Egypt, Moses removed the leaven from God’s holy words and gave to Israel, "the chosen servant of God," the unleavened loaf, and Moses gave to his brother Aaron the regulation whereby he would choose a scape-goat, and placing his hand upon its head he would transfer the sins of Israel onto the goat, which was then sent out into wilderness to Azazel.

Although it is written in the margins of the Good News Bible that 'Azazel' is unknown and may have been some desert demon, Azazel was in fact one of the Sons of God who descended in the days of the giant Enoch’s physical Father Jared. The Name “Jared” means “Decending,’ and it was in the days of “Descending or Jared, before the birth of Enoch the giant, that the sons of God defiled themselves with the daughters of men by possessing the bodies of the men while they were with their wives, and from there were able to pass on their issue and giants were born in the earth. According to ancient Jewish tradition, Noah was also born a giant.

Azazel was the one who taught mankind all about metallurgy and the making of swords, knives, shields and breastplates, and bracelets and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures Etc. Tubal-Cain, the seventh and last recorded descendant of Cain, was an artificer in copper and iron; the master of all coppersmiths and blacksmiths. The judgment of the Lord spoken through his servant Enoch, was that those angels who had come from heaven had to return to heaven, but they would have no peace, and first, they had to be bound in the valley of earth till seventy generations had passed, (Jesus is seventy generations from Enoch, See Luke 3; 23-38.) While Azazel was punished separate from the rest, he was taken out to a place in the wilderness called ‘Dudael’ where he was cast into a pit and covered with rough and jagged stones, and all sin was to be ascribed to him. As I can find no source other than the words of righteous Enoch from which Moses could have known of this I am convinced that while in Egypt he was taught from the writings of Enoch. Ten is the end of a cycle, 10+1 is the beginning of the new, Noah was the tenth from God and a new beginning, and Abraham was the tenth from Noah, another new beginning. Enoch was the seventh born son of God and Jesus who is seventy generations from Enoch, is the eleventh of the seventh born sons from God, 10+1, the new or the second Adam.


“The God of the Zulus who are descendants of Ham the great, great grandson of Enoch, is called the ‘Unkulunkulu,’ which translated to English, means great, great grandfather. When pressed as to who was the father of their great ancestor (Enoch), the general answer of the Zulus seems to be that he ‘branched off from a reed or that he came from a bed of reeds.’” (Reported by Dr. Gallaway) ---Max Muller, Science of Religion, p. 45. See Cain = Reeds. Who was the first born of the spiritual Cain?

‘The Book of Enoch the Prophet,’ XXXVII: 4, “Till the present day such wisdom has never been given by the Lord of Spirits as I have received according to my insight, according to the good pleasure of the Lord of Spirits by whom the lot of eternal life has been given to me.” This is verified in genesis 5: 23, and Hebrews 11: 5.

Enoch was transposed about 56 to 57 years after the death of God’s only begotten son Adam, (see Luke 3: 38,) who was the Most High in creation and the Lord of creatures, who had gained dominion over all other life forms that had preceded him, and was the first born of creation with the ability to comprehend the ‘I AM,’ who is the invisible spirit which develops in the animated animal body, and who was also the Prototype of the Lord of Spirits, who is the Most High who exists in the inner dimension that co-exists within this three dimensional world and is the Most High of the spiritual Godheads of all the universal species and the one who presides in the assembly of the gods and gives his decisions.

The Son of Man who is the indwelling spirit in the body of post flood mankind which has descended from Noah and the seven other souls who are all the direct descendants of Enoch the living spirit who dwells in the kingdom of God that is within you who are the tabernacle of God, who dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of the body that is you and all the descendants of Noah and the other seven souls; and who ascends to the ends of time evolving upon all the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness, who had all paid the blood price for the mistakes that they had made in their earthly existence, and which spirits are gathered to the indwelling spirit. TO BE CONTINUED.
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
Although I have posted this before, I believe that the truth should be repeted over and over again, so here is the truth once more.

John 3: 13, "No man has ascended into heaven except he who came down, even the 'Son of Man', who Is in heaven." The only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of time and to have witnessed the elements of the universal body become so excited that they burned up and fell as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the Great Abyss, where all that exists, is condensed into the infinitely dense and hot, infinitesimally small primordial Atom that would, after the period of universal rest, blast out of the Black hole and be resurrected again to continue on, in the Eternal process of growth or evolution.

When Enoch, of the sixth period of universal activity was carried to heaven at the age of 365, the number of days in a calendar year, he was escorted to the throne of the Most High which was surrounded by glorious creatures by Michael, the angelic being who had developed in a pre-human physical body, for as Paul himself says in 1 Corinthians 15: 44-45, “When buried it is a physical body; when raised, it will be a spiritual body. There is of course a physical body, so there has to be a spiritual body. For the scripture says, “The first man Adam, was created a living being”; (Did you see that, Adam the man, was created a living being, he was not a living being who became a man) but the last Adam is a life giving spirit. It is not the spiritual that comes first, but the physical, and then the spiritual.”

The Most High who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel, which could save one man from the body of mankind which had been sentenced to death, then tempted the glorious angelic creatures which surrounded his throne, by saying, “This is the one I have chosen, it is my will that Enoch stand before my face into all eternity, the glorious creatures then bowed down saying, “So be it according to your will.” Michael was then commanded to strip Enoch of his earthly garment and to anoint him with the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the sun and behold, he was as one of the glorious ones. There, the 365 cycle unblemished chosen heir of the Most High, who was clothed and girded in fire, was to serve God before the body of Adam into all eternity. Christ: “The anointed one.”

Enoch was then commanded to write down the soul of all who would ever live, and the position for each soul into all eternity, here we see the author of the book of life, which only his heir Jesus is able to open. 366 books in all were written by Enoch. From the Book of Jubilees 4: 23, “And He (Enoch), was taken from amongst the children of men, and We (The angels) conducted him into the garden of Eden in majesty and honour, and behold, there he writes down the condemnation and judgment of the world, and all the wickedness of the children of men. And on account of it (God) brought the waters of the flood upon all the land etc.

2 Peter 3: 5-7, “Long ago God gave a command and the heavens and earth were created. The earth was formed out of water and by water, and it was also by means of water, the water of the flood, that the Old World was destroyed. But the heavens and earth that now exist are being preserved by the same command of God, in order to be destroyed by fire. They are being kept for the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ‘Perdition’: Loss of the soul, “Soul’: the animating and vital principle in living beings or the life force upon which the spirit that develops in the animal body is imprinted and from which life force, the spirit can be divided, “For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit.”

The indwelling Father spirit within the innermost sanctuary of the pre-flood body of man was Adam whose body was sentenced to die, that body was submerged in the Baptismal waters of the world from which the new man arose in who the indwelling Father spirit was Enoch, the anointed one to whom the lot of eternal life had been given, having been redeemed by the blood of Righteous Abel which could save but one man, (unlike the blood of the anointed one who had ascended to the ends of all time and was the compilation of all the righteous spirits that had veen gathered to him,) which, speaks of much greater things than does the blood of righteous Abel. The post- flood body of man are all descendants of Noah and the other seven who were all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchin, Cherminion and Giadad. Why do you suppose that John came with his water baptism in order to bear witness to the Light of Man, or the spirit that had developed in the body of post-flood mankind and had ascended to the ends of all time while gathering to himself and evolving on the spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness, who had all paid the blood price for the sins and mistakes of their earthly lives, and who was about to come into the world of his dead past and fill his chosen heir with his spirit?


It was in the days of Jared which name means “Descending”, so it was in the days of ‘Descending’ that the sons of God came down and possessed the bodies of the men while they were with their women, and from there were able to pass on their issue, that Enoch the giant was born. After ascending to the eighth eternal heaven of light, “For God created an eighth day also, that it should be the first after his works. And it is a day eternal, with neither, hours, days, weeks, months, or years, for all time shall be stuck together in one aeon, and all who enter therein shall be surrounded by great light and they shall know peace.

After Enoch had recorded the 366 books, he was command to return to earth and reveal his writings to his sons, and an ancient angel colder than ice was called forward and he touched the face of the glorious body of Enoch, then the Lord said to him, “If thy face were not frozen here, no man on earth would be able to behold thee.

From the ‘Book of Enoch the Prophet’ CVI: 1-6, “Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son (and Lamech was the physical Father to Noah the giant) And his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

You know of course that Jesus who was the chosen heir of the Lamb of God was placed in his throne within the innermost sanctuary of the body of mankind to gather to himself the righteous spirits of the dead: while dead in the flesh, but alive in spirit descended to the days of Noah, where, from the throne of Godhead within the body of Noah, he preached the good news also to those who were dead relative to the time of the Roman Empire when the man Jesus was first born.

The book of Enoch was held in great reverence by many of the church fathers, including Irenaeus, Origen and Tertullian, even Jerome who with other Christian authorities as Hilary and Augustine, were to later ban the book, which was thought to have been lost for Millennia.
Origen, who was well versed in the writings of Enoch, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.
 
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IF_u_knew

Curious
Is their any religion other than Messianic Judaism/Christianity that believes in the resurrection or freedom from death?

I do not subscribe to Judaism, Messianic or otherwise, nor do I subscribe to Christianity. I do subscribe to the deep and hidden Wisdom of the Tanakh and yes, I believe their is a resurrection of the dead... though, not in the way that most do. I live among the dead even now.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
I do not subscribe to Judaism, Messianic or otherwise, nor do I subscribe to Christianity. I do subscribe to the deep and hidden Wisdom of the Tanakh and yes, I believe their is a resurrection of the dead... though, not in the way that most do. I live among the dead even now.

He is the First and the Last, the Beginning and End
The Alpha and Omega, the Father and Son

The Omega is the end result of this period of universal activity in who, all are dead. It is not only you who are living among the dead; we are all living in the dead past of the Omega who is the beginning of the new world, into which we shall be resurrected when he is torn asunder for the foundation of that world.
 

VEW

Member
Sorry, I don't believe in a literal lake of fire, so the question makes no sense to me.

Seems as though this is something else that we agree on. There are three words in Hebrew and Greek that have been translated hell in English Bibles. The first two, Hebrew she'ohl and Greek hai'des carry the meaning of a dark place of confinement and simply refer to the common grave of all manking. The thire is Greek ge'en-na, which is used in the Bible as a simble of completer distruction.

Reference to Genenna appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Five times it is directly associated with fire. Translators have rendered the Greek expression 'ge'en-na tou py-ros' as "hell fire", "fires of hell" "fiery pit" and "fires of Gehenna."

http://www.geocities.com/Techno_Leper/Hell

Notice what the Bible says the penalty for sin is. Rom.6:23 "The wages sin pays is death." Not eternal torment. .......VEW
 
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VEW

Member
Katzpur, hi! :)

Rather than try to explain this myself, I'm providing you with the relevant passage from the Baha'i scriptures where these terms are explained:


Chapter 55:


SOUL, SPIRIT AND MIND


Question.—What is the difference between the mind, spirit and soul?

Hi. Sorry, but I am not acquainted with the Baha'i scriptures. How do you feel about the Bible? In the Bible the words translated "spirit" basically mean "breath". But this implies much more than the act of breathing. The Bible writer James, for example, states: "The body with out spirit is dead." (James 2:26) Hence, spirit is that which animates the body.

The animating force cannot simply be the breath, or air, moving through the lungs. Because after breathing stops, life remains in the body cells for a brief period ---"FOR SEVERAL MINUTES, " According to The World Book Encyclopedia. For this reason effortrs at resuscitation can succeed, and body organs can be transplanted from one person to another. But once the spark of life is extinguished from the cells of the body, all efforts to restore life are futile. All the breath in the world cannot revive even one cell. The spirit, then, is the invisible life force.----the spark of life----that keeps the cells alive. This life-force is sustained by breathing. --Job 34: 14,15.
Do You Have an Immortal Spirit? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

If your wondering then... What is the soul? What is the condition of the dead? and what happens to the spirit when a person dies? The Bible provides a clear, non-contradictiory answer to these questions also......VEW
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
Is their any religion other than Messianic Judaism/Christianity that believes in the resurrection or freedom from death?


I don't know about other religions, but here is the resurrection as I see it.

It is my belief that mankind is the lord of creatures and is the most high in the visible material universe, and that it is the spirit born of the body of mankind, (The Son of Man) who is the next stage in the eternal evolution of life, and who is Lord of spirits and all that is visible and invisible in this universal body.

I believe that this galactic cluster which will fall as fire into the great Abyss from which it originated and is but one universal cell in the constant eternal and boundless Cosmos, will one day be resurrected. I believe that within the constant Cosmic body, both dimensions co-exist, some universal bodies at rest in their black holes gathering the expended energy of other universal bodies, which themselves will enter their state of rest, while those at rest awake to shine once more within the eternal and constant body of the Logos God, from whom all things came into existence, by whom all things came into existence and for whom all things exist, and who is the divine animating principle that pervades and activate all that is.

I believe that the Milky Way galaxy is anchored in space by a super massive Black Hole which has a mass of over three million suns, and it is situated at the centre of our galaxy, as It is now believed by the greater majority of scientists, that every galaxy has a Black Hole at its centre. I believe that the Milky Way galaxy was once a massive first generation star that was unable to withstand the great gravitational force of its own mass, burning off the last of its heavier elements, it blazed out as a brilliant supernova, exploding off a percentage of its mass before collapsing in upon itself and being crushed by its own gravitational force, to that which is beyond a neutron star.

I believe that it is the mass within the Black Hole that holds in orbit our Galaxy, which was formed from the nebula of that massive super-nova, plus other heavenly bodies that have been gathered to the central hidden mass. All the diffused mass of interstellar dust and gas, rotating around the black hole, cooling and condensing into solar systems suns and planets.

I believe that Orbiting our galaxy are the two companion galaxies which are called, the Large Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Major) and the Small Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Minor), these, as with other previous heavenly bodies will one day merge to become one with our Milky Way Galaxy, which is but one of huge company or cluster of galaxies, which are falling in toward the great ‘Virgo cluster’ of galaxies about 50 million light years away, which is but one of the many super, super massive gatherers that are out there in the boundless cosmos, where at least a hundred billion galaxies are congregating in giant clusters and “walls’ around those great yawning voids.

I believe that around the massive black Hole at the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy, orbits many other smaller Black Holes which were once at the centre of other galactic bodies that had been gathered to our Milky Way home.

I believe that this universal cell is continuing to expand outward from the Big Bang, of its origin, and that our Milky way Galaxy is moving away from the point of the Big Bang from which it originated, and that the galaxy ‘Andromeda’ is expanding outward from the point of the Big Bang of its origin, and that big and beautiful multi celled body of Andromeda, is heading straight at us on a collision course.

I believe that the gathering of galaxies into a new universal cosmic cell, is a way of cross pollination in the gathering back to the singularity of our origin. I believe that all that is being gathered to the great abyss in the centre of the ‘Virgo Cluster,’ will be crushed back to the infinitely dense and hot, infinitesimally small Primordial atom from which this universal cell in the constant eternal evolving Cosmos, originated, and from which seemingly bottomless pit, it will one day be resurrected to continue on, in its eternal process of evolution, and I will awaken after an apparent short sleep, wherein I am oblivious to time, to live once again.
 
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