• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Resurrection of the Dead

VEW

Member
I was referring to resurrection of the dead, as in, to come to life again... not afterlife.
Jehovah's Witnesses (who are not a part of christendom) believe that both the righteous and the unrighteous will be resurrected to life on a paradise earth with the prospect of never dying.
". Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out."—John 5:21, 28, 29
"I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."—ACTS 24:15.........................VEW
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Greetings!



We Baha'is believe in resurection, but as a spiritual rather than a physical event!

Best regards, :)

Bruce
Could you explain that, Bruce? That's something that has never made sense to me. Do you believe there is a point at which the spirit dies and is then given new life? If not, how do you define resurrection?
 

Bishadi

Active Member
Is their any religion other than Messianic Judaism/Christianity that believes in the resurrection or freedom from death?


Sure! Reality; the truth!

To learn what life is, pure to existence, then you (mass/energy) can create by choice. Thereby you (energy/mass) contribute energy to existence for life to continue, by choice. You will live in what you do and know it!

That is what the 'truth' does: gives life!
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Jehovah's Witnesses (who are not a part of christendom) believe that both the righteous and the unrighteous will be resurrected to life on a paradise earth with the prospect of never dying.
". Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out."—John 5:21, 28, 29
"I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."—ACTS 24:15.........................VEW
I thought Jehovah's Witnesses considered themselves to be Christians. Am I just confused or is there a difference of opinion among Jehovah's Witnesses themselves?
 

Bishadi

Active Member
questions are awesome as that is how knowledge conveys

Do you believe there is a point at which the spirit dies and is then given new life?
When you sleep, your conscious choice of 'doing' is resting. In the morning, you take charge of the mass for the day. If you give of yourself for 'other' lives to begin, to develop, or just watering a plant; your energy is within that gift (good choice).

A part of you is living in the 'good' that 'supports life to continue.' (Bad choice: loss to the common)

Think of living; as if you live within God's garden and you have a job and when you give, it is as if your energy is watering the life of the plants. You honor God by become a part of supporting HIM, HIS creations, HIS intent and become a part of HIS heaven on earth. (Back to the garden of eden, by choice)

If not, how do you define resurrection?


Resurrection could be as simple as procreation. A portion of you is given to create a new life. You, your parents and your whole lineage gets to live another generation because of YOUR contribution. (good choice) (from a seed (sperm/egg) to a full capable person, to another seed, (the previous returns to the soil but teaches the new what they learned before then)........... the cycle of reoccuring life and the progression to learn the knowledge to understand it.

As for your memories, going into another place on a spirit: well that is not really an applicable reality in that memories are affixed to your body. (one bad bump and you forget everything)
 

VEW

Member
I was referring to resurrection of the dead, as in, to come to life again... not afterlife.

I thought Jehovah's Witnesses considered themselves to be Christians. Am I just confused or is there a difference of opinion among Jehovah's Witnesses themselves?

VEW says: Hi...I didn't say that we were not Christian (Christ followers)..What I said was, we are not a part of Christendom. Let me explain.
At the inception of Christianity, there were two ways available to those espousing that unpopular faith—hold to the uncompromising teachings and principles of Christ and the Scriptures or gravitate toward the wide and easygoing path of compromise with the world of that time. As we have seen, the history of the first 400 years shows which path the majority eventually chose.
Historian Will Durant explains: "The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . Soon the bishops, rather than the Roman prefects, would be the source of order and the seat of power in the cities; the metropolitans, or archbishops, would support, if not supplant, the provincial governors; and the synod of bishops would succeed the provincial assembly. The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state."—The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ

This attitude of compromise with the Roman world stands in stark contrast to the teachings of Christ and the apostles.

Greek philosophy and terminology began to infiltrate Christendom’s teachings, especially in the fields of Trinitarian doctrine and the belief of an immortal soul. Nearly all the religions of Christendom follow that belief.

Miguel de Unamuno, a prominent 20th-century Spanish scholar, wrote about Jesus: "He believed rather in the resurrection of the flesh [such as Lazarus’ case according to the Jewish manner, not in the immortality of the soul, according to the [Greek] Platonic manner. . . . The proofs of this can be seen in any honest book of interpretation." He concluded: "The immortality of the soul . . . is a pagan philosophical dogma." (La Agonía Del Cristianismo [The Agony of Christianity]) That "pagan philosophical dogma" infiltrated into Christendom’s teaching, even though Christ plainly had no such thought.—Matthew 10:28; John 5:28, 29; 11:23, 24.
This is not true with Jehovah’s Witnesses...They stick closely to the teachings of Jesus and his early followers. This is not popular, but neither was the Christian faith in the first century the popular course. Therefore, my comment that we are no part of Christendom..........VEW
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
VEW says: Hi...I didn't say that we were not Christian (Christ followers)..What I said was, we are not a part of Christendom. Let me explain._____________________________

"The immortality of the soul . . . is a pagan philosophical dogma."


There is but one soul which activates the entire Cosmic body, and we all share in, and are part and parcel of that singular life force, which is the 'Logos,' "The divine animating principle which pervades the entire universal body," and it is immortal, from it, has come all things that exist, by it, was all things brought into existence, and for it, does all things exist, and in it, there developed a supreme personality of Godhead, who is the most high in the creation, the Lord of creatures who is the prototype of the Lord of Spirits: 'The son of Man,' who will gain dominion over all life, visible and invisible and will rule the whole world with justice.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
VEW says: Hi...I didn't say that we were not Christian (Christ followers)..What I said was, we are not a part of Christendom.... Jehovah’s Witnesses... stick closely to the teachings of Jesus and his early followers. This is not popular, but neither was the Christian faith in the first century the popular course. Therefore, my comment that we are no part of Christendom.
Hi, VEW. Thanks for the explanation. I am LDS and, as you may or may not know, we share your belief that there was an apostasy in the early Christian Church. While we differ in many of our beliefs, this is one we share. I understand why you would say that you are Christian but not part of Christendom. I would say that the Latter-day Saints are Christian but not a part of traditional Christianity. To us, anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is our Savior and who considers himself to be a Christian is, in at least some sense, part of "Christendom." I guess it's more a matter of semantics than anything else.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Hi, VEW. Thanks for the explanation. I am LDS and, as you may or may not know, we share your belief that there was an apostasy in the early Christian Church. While we differ in many of our beliefs, this is one we share. I understand why you would say that you are Christian but not part of Christendom. I would say that the Latter-day Saints are Christian but not a part of traditional Christianity. To us, anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is our Savior and who considers himself to be a Christian is, in at least some sense, part of "Christendom." I guess it's more a matter of semantics than anything else.

Which Jesus are you referring to? The man Jesus, who the Lord promised in Deuteronomy 18: 18, that, he would raise up from among the Israelites, the one who he would send in his name to do and say only that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour. The man Jesus who is the biological son of Joseph the son of Heli, who is the half brother of Mary who was also sired by Heli, who Peter in Acts 3: 22-23, verifies is the promised Israelite chosen by the Lord, in who he would manifest himself to the body of mankind which descended through He, ‘Our indwelling Ancestral Spirit,’ the only exception of all mankind to have been redeemed for the old world, which was submerged in the baptismal waters from which rose this body of mankind in who the indwelling father is He, who was chosen from the old world to serve God before the body of Adam into all eternity.

Are you really a follower of that Jesus, see Hebrews 5: 7, who in his life on earth made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death, and because he was humble and devoted, he was heard by God who declares all the descendants of Jacob as his sons, see Psalms 82: 6, “You are Gods I said, all of you are sons of the most High.” Not ‘The Son of God,’ nor ‘God’s Son,’ but A son of God (Check it out) he learned through suffering to be obedient and The Lord could then use him to do and say only that which he was commanded. It was then, after he was made perfect through his obedience, he became the source of eternal salvation, and God then declared him to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek with these words, “You are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father.”

The Jesus of whom the voice from the cloud, said to Peter, James and John, “This is my son whom I have Chosen, listen to him.” The Jesus of whom it is said in Acts 3: 13, "For the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus," the one who is referred to in Acts 17: 31, where it is said. “For the Lord has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.”
The man Jesus who was the first fruits, the first of many brothers to be redeemed from the dead past of the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of the heavens and who came down in the form of a dove to fill his chosen heir with his spirit, his chosen heir to whom he gave divine glory by placing him in his heavenly throne as the cornerstone to who would be gathered the spiritual cells of those who believed the words of the Lord as spoken through him, in the formation of the new Temple of God which would replace his old tent which is the body of mankind, in which brilliant Temple of Light, he will dwell on earth among mankind and rule the whole world, visible and invisible, with Justice.

Or are you referring to that other Jesus who was preached by the enemies of Christ, those who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, That other Jesus who is said to have been the co-creator of the entire Cosmos who entered the womb of a virgin mortal woman and formed for himself a body which he let die on the cross, knowing full well that he himself the immortal God who had existed from all time could not die? I wonder what that other Jesus has done with that body after he rose it from death, he had no need of it in all the aeons of time before he came to earth, so why would he need it after he returned to where he was before? And what was it that has died for the sins of all mankind?
 
Last edited:

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Which Jesus are you referring to? The man Jesus, who the Lord promised in Deuteronomy 18: 18, that, he would raise up from among the Israelites, the one who he would send in his name to do and say only that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour. The man Jesus who is the biological son of Joseph the son of Heli, who is the half brother of Mary who was also sired by Heli, who Peter in Acts 3: 22-23, verifies is the promised Israelite chosen by the Lord, in who he would manifest himself to the body of mankind which descended through He, ‘Our indwelling Ancestral Spirit,’ the only exception of all mankind to have been redeemed for the old world, which was submerged in the baptismal waters from which rose this body of mankind in who the indwelling father is He, who was chosen from the old world to serve God before the body of Adam into all eternity.

Are you really a follower of that Jesus, see Hebrews 5: 7, who in his life on earth made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death, and because he was humble and devoted, he was heard by God who declares all the descendants of Jacob as his sons, see Psalms 82: 6, “You are Gods I said, all of you are sons of the most High.” Not ‘The Son of God,’ nor ‘God’s Son,’ but A son of God (Check it out) he learned through suffering to be obedient and The Lord could then use him to do and say only that which he was commanded. It was then, after he was made perfect through his obedience, he became the source of eternal salvation, and God then declared him to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek with these words, “You are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father.”

The Jesus of whom the voice from the cloud, said to Peter, James and John, “This is my son whom I have Chosen, listen to him.” The Jesus of whom it is said in Acts 3: 13, "For the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus," the one who is referred to in Acts 17: 31, where it is said. “For the Lord has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.”
The man Jesus who was the first fruits, the first of many brothers to be redeemed from the dead past of the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of the heavens and who came down in the form of a dove to fill his chosen heir with his spirit, his chosen heir to whom he gave divine glory by placing him in his heavenly throne as the cornerstone to who would be gathered the spiritual cells of those who believed the words of the Lord as spoken through him, in the formation of the new Temple of God which would replace his old tent which is the body of mankind, in which brilliant Temple of Light, he will dwell on earth among mankind and rule the whole world, visible and invisible, with Justice.

Or are you referring to that other Jesus who was preached by the enemies of Christ, those who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, That other Jesus who is said to have been the co-creator of the entire Cosmos who entered the womb of a virgin mortal woman and formed for himself a body which he let die on the cross, knowing full well that he himself the immortal God who had existed from all time could not die? I wonder what that other Jesus has done with that body after he rose from death, he had no need of it in all the aeons of time before he came to earth, so why would he need it after he returned to where he was before? And what was it that has died for the sins of all mankind?
You really love to hear yourself talk, huh, s-word? You ought to know by now that I can't be bothered with this nonsense.
 

VEW

Member
[/color]

There is but one soul which activates the entire Cosmic body, and we all share in, and are part and parcel of that singular life force, which is the 'Logos,' "The divine animating principle which pervades the entire universal body," and it is immortal, from it, has come all things that exist, by it, was all things brought into existence, and for it, does all things exist, and in it, there developed a supreme personality of Godhead, who is the most high in the creation, the Lord of creatures who is the prototype of the Lord of Spirits: 'The son of Man,' who will gain dominion over all life, visible and invisible and will rule the whole world with justice.

You know! We are all free to choose what we will believe. Personally, I choose to believe what the Bible teaches. If you are saying that your above post is supported by Holy Scripture, I would be interested in how you came to this conclusion....VEW
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Is their any religion other than Messianic Judaism/Christianity that believes in the resurrection or freedom from death?

Not the resurrection, but resurrection that can be attained by anybody? Absolutely, tom......ours do. Once attained, you're known as a delog.

From the link:
Tibet additionally has an amazing tradition of gifted people who return from clinical death to describe what they experienced. These people are called delogs, or returners from death. Profoundly spiritual, delogs are sent back by enlightened ones to record and share their experiences. Their experiences are in some ways similar to western near death experiences, except that delogs leave their bodies for many days, sometimes up to a week, not just for a few minutes. This allows them to travel far beyond the time of death.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
You really love to hear yourself talk, huh, s-word? You ought to know by now that I can't be bothered with this nonsense.

While we're on the subject of the resurrection of the dead, in reference to the Son of Man, who died for the sins of mankind, in accordance with your belief, which you somehow believe is not nonsense, could you possibly explain, what actually died for our sins?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
While we're on the subject of the resurrection of the dead, in reference to the Son of Man, who died for the sins of mankind, in accordance with your belief, which you somehow believe is not nonsense, could you possibly explain, what actually died for our sins?
Nope.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
You know! We are all free to choose what we will believe. Personally, I choose to believe what the Bible teaches. If you are saying that your above post is supported by Holy Scripture, I would be interested in how you came to this conclusion....VEW

There are only two men in the Bible who were taken to heaven without experiencing death, the first was Enoch, from the old world which was destroyed by water, 2 Peter 3: 5-7, speaks of another world, the 6th period of universal activity, where, “The earth was formed out of water and by water, and it was also by water, the water of the flood, that the old world was destroyed. But the heavens and earth that now exist are being preserved by the same command of God, in order to be destroyed by fire. “The second was Elijah of this the 7th period, Elijah the prophet of fire, and although his body was taken up to Enoch, his spirit remained here on earth in his successor Elisha, which spirit, was later to enter into, and give life to the body of a dead youth who had been thrown onto his bleached bones, and was later seen as John the Baptist who came in the power of the spirit of Elijah.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

In the beginning. There can be no beginning or end in an eternal existence, this is in reference to the beginning of this period of universal Activity, the Great Manvantara or the Greater day of manifestation, which is preceded by and followed by Pralaya, the periods of universal rest or non-being according to our finite minds. In the beginning was the Logos, the divine animating principle which pervades the entire living Cosmos, and the Logos was God, through which singularity came all things that exist, (This includes you and I) and in the Logos, and from a previous cycle of manifestation, there had developed a supreme personality of Godhead, and he was the Light of Man, the Spirit that had developed in the body of mankind, the most high in the creation from the previous world, which had been destroyed by water, and he, who was the life, or the ‘I Am’ in the Logos; was the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of time as the living spirit in Noah and the other seven who were all descendants of Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad, the six sons of Enoch the one year old unblemished Lamb of God, who at the age of 365, the number of days in a calendar year, was carried to the ends of all time and witnessed the end of all things, as the universe rolled up as a scroll with a great hissing noise and the universal elements became so excited they burned up and fell as Massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the great Abyss (Black Hole), the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

The only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of time, came down to his own and his own received him not, but to as many as received him, to them gave He, the power to become the sons of God, and Jesus was the first fruits, the first of many brothers who are to be redeemed from his dead past, to be the resurrected body of He who, although he cannot die, gives his immortal life that we might live, He who was torn asunder and poured out as living cells of fire on all those who believed his words as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus to whom he has given divine glory by placing him in his heavenly throne as the cornerstone to the new Temple on earth which will be his resurrected body in which he will rule the whole world with justice and where, here on earth, his resurrected multi-celled body of glorious and incorruptible Light, will dwell among mankind, clothed and girded in fire to serve God before the body of Adam (Mankind) into all eternity. My saviour does give his immortal life for the sins of the body in which he developed and in which he gained all the knowledge, wisdom and insight needed by he who is to rule the whole world with Justice.

From the ‘Book of Enoch the Prophet’ which was quoted from, verbatim, by Jude the brother of James the younger of the three biological sons of Mary, who was the biological brother of Jesus, Chapter 37: 4, “Till the present day such wisdom has never been given by the Lord of Spirits as I have received according to my insight, according to the good pleasure of the Lord of Spirits by whom the Lot of eternal life has been given me.” (See Gen 5: 21-24, and Hebrews 11: 5.) My saviour who was the compilation of all the spirits that had been gathered to him in his ascent to the eighth and eternal heaven of Light, ceased to be, by giving life to all the spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness and who had all paid the blood price for the sins of their lives, which spirits were gathered to He, in his ascension to the ends of time within the innermost sanctuary of his tent or rather Tabernacle, which is the body of mankind.

John the Baptist who was the manifestation of the spirit of Elijah, was not that light, but came to bear witness to the light of Man with his water Baptism, which represented the submerging of the old sinful mortal Adam in the water from which would rise the new immortal being of light.
Although John knew that his cousin Jesus was greater than he and felt that he was not worthy to baptise him, he did not know at that time, and nor would he know until he rose from the waters that he was the one in who Enoch the indwelling ancestral Father spirit, who dwells behind the veil that hangs before the innermost sanctuary in the tabernacle or tent which is the body of man, (For the kingdom of God is within you) would reveal himself to mankind. John 1: 33, From the kingdom of God within, John heard our God and saviour, who rose the man Jesus from death and is also able to raise we, who are united to him and were chosen before this world began, say to him, “You will see the spirit come down and stay on a MAN; he is the one who will baptise with the holy spirit.” This John saw, when Jesus rose from the waters, not before.

But to explain to they, who have swallowed the camel (The great Lie that Jesus was not a human being) those lovers of the lie, who gag on the gnat, the simple truth that he was a man, as are all who are gathered as the new Temple of God on earth, it would simply be a waste of time to explain my absolute faith in the fact that Jesus was a man, the first of many brothers who are gathered together as the new multi-celled body which is the resurrection of the glorious body of Enoch, (The Sacrificial Lamb of God) who was carried to the very throne of the Most High at the age of 365, where he was stripped of his mortal garment and rubbed with the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the sun, where girded and clothed in fire, he was chosen to serve God before the body of Adam (Mankind) into all eternity.

The word Christ means: ‘The anointed one.’ For I tell you a truth, we shall not all fall asleep in death, but we who are to take the thrones that have been prepared for us, as the risen immortal body of Christ our saviour, we, through who our indwelling saviour will rule the whole world with justice, will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter, into the bodies of glorious brilliant and blinding incorruptible light as seen by Paul, which body of light who was the first fruits to be harvested, in answer to Pauls question, “Who are You?” said, "I am Jesus of Nazareth," not I am the eternal son, who, with God, was the co-creator of the entire Cosmos. Psalms 8: 4-6, “What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the Son of Man that thou visitest him. For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet etc.
 
Last edited:

Berachiah Ben Yisrael

Active Member
You really love to hear yourself talk, huh, s-word? You ought to know by now that I can't be bothered with this nonsense.

Why do you have to continue to be so disrespectful? You give your faith such a bad name in acting this way. The man just asked you a beautiful question with extended examples of his question and you attack his intellect? I just don't understand. Doesn't LDS teach love and compassion as well as paintence? Why don't you just answer his question?
 

Berachiah Ben Yisrael

Active Member
While we're on the subject of the resurrection of the dead, in reference to the Son of Man, who died for the sins of mankind, in accordance with your belief, which you somehow believe is not nonsense, could you possibly explain, what actually died for our sins?



She evidently is new to her faith and does not have a answer. Maybe in time she will mature with some knowledge of what it is to be LDS and act accordingly.
 
Top