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Featured Resurrection of Christ - What's the evidence for and against a literal resurrection

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Dawnofhope, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    I have no doubt that you are sincere in your belief that Jesus was literally resurrected.

    Matthew 28:12-15 is certainly part of the resurrection narrative created by the authors of the gospels that gives a strong impression that literal events are being discussed and that Jesus was literally resurrected.

    A few questions for you.

    Who wrote the gospel of Matthew? How do you account for other statements Matthew (Matthew 27:50-53)? Do you take these events literally?

    Who wrote the first NT book where the resurrection is mentioned and who wrote the first NT books?

    How do you account for the ascension of Christ through the stratosphere and how the early Christian's understanding of these events relies on a cosmology that is now redundant?

    You sound like you are from the USA....fake news?

    The problem is no longer the rumours spreading from the Romans and the Jews. The issue is science and modern Biblical scholarship.
     
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  2. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    We agree that Jesus was the Son of God. The Baha'is have the same Bible to prove he wasn't literally resurrected from the dead.

    My ancestors grew up in Northern Ireland where one Christian group (the Protestants) was staunchly opposed to another Christian group (the Catholics). It used to be said there would never be peace in Ireland.

    Baha'is are taught to associate with peoples of all Faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship.

    The Jesus Baha'is believe in taught Love God, love your neighbour, and love your enemy.

    I see no distinction between Moses, Christ, Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah as Manifestations of God. That is my belief and what I know.

    Its OK to ask questions, even the tough ones. Its OK for peoples of other faiths to share and discuss their beliefs.

    I know in my heart my love for God, Jesus, and the Bible. I know in my heart, my love for you, though you may despise and curse me.
     
    #1022 Dawnofhope, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Doctrines like original sin, the bodily resurrection, the ascension, the Trinity, and Jesus is God incarnate, to name a few.
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Okay, I can agree with that. :)
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not normally interpret the Bible at all, unless a Christian brings it up. ;)
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    As I just said, I do not interpret the Bible. I just say what I think certain verses mean if they are relevant to a dialogue I am having. I do not divide anything anymore than Christians divide anything.
    I never said that Baha’u’llah was in the Bible; I only ever said that Baha’u’llah was prophesied in the Bible. In that sense Baha’u’llah was referred to in the Bible.

    The Bible prophesied that which was yet to come, so obviously it was referring to events that would occur AFTER the Bible was written... Namely, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

    Jesus never promised to return and Jesus is not the Messiah spoken of in the OT so I consider that a false interpretation of the Bible.

    Is this really hard to understand?
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    All Christians say that they truly adhere to the Bible so that is a meaningless statement, logically speaking. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Wrong. I do not use the Bible to support anything. I became a Baha'i 42 years before I ever read one page of the Bible. Baha'is do not need the Bible to support our beliefs because we have a new revelation from Baha'u'llah. It is only when approached by Christians who insist that I need to prove who Baha'u'llah was by using the Bible that I refer to the Bible. I cannot speak for other Baha'is but that is my position.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, Jesus is not going to return so Jesus cannot possibly be the Messiah that is spoken of in the Bible.

    Of course the Christian websites say Jesus is the Messiah. :rolleyes:

    However, there is not one verse where Jesus ever said He would return to this world again and there are verses where Jesus says He won't return. The return of Jesus was fabricated by many misinterpretations of verses.
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am not here to support anyone. I speak for myself.

    Christianity is not meaningless without Christ's bodily resurrection. The cross sacrifice was necessary and it was done. The bodily resurrection of Jesus is not necessary for anything. Most but not all Christians believe it so they can cling to the belief that Jesus is coming back and they will rise from physical graves, but those are both false beliefs, perpetrated by the church, derived from misinterpretations of the Bible.
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am not going to argue about what the Bible means. Jesus was a Messiah but Jesus was not the Messiah of the latter days.

    Baha'u'llah was not descended from Ishmael, as I said before. Baha'u'llah was descended from Abraham through both Sarah and Keturah, and that the line from Sarah included David as well though I don't know at what point before Jesus it then split off. Baha'u'llah was a descendant of David.
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, a genealogy would be evidence but I do not do genealogy.
    Someone else might have done it though. :)
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    There is nothing twisted about it.

    “THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90
     
  14. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I am on a mobile and so cannot split your post up.
    Just answer this. How many times did Jesus visit the temple in that last week, in gMark?
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Thanks Tony. I already posted that same link to the genealogy of the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh but Neb could not understand how Baha'u'llah could be a descendant of David from what I posted. Below is what I posted:

    No, Baha’u’llah did not come through Ishmael:

    “Aside from this, certain families and lineages have been singled out for a special blessing. Thus the descendants of Abraham received the special blessing that all the Prophets of the House of Israel were raised up from among their ranks. This is a blessing that God bestowed upon that lineage. Moses, through both His father and His mother; Christ, through His mother; Muhammad; the Báb; and all the Prophets and Holy Ones of Israel belong to that lineage. Bahá’u’lláh too is a lineal descendant of Abraham, for Abraham had other sons besides Ishmael and Isaac who in those days emigrated to the regions of Persia and Afghanistan, and the Blessed Beauty is one of their descendants.” Some Answered Questions

    This passage clearly states that Baha’u’llah descended from Abraham via another son than Ishmael or Isaac. Since Ishmael and Isaac were Abraham’s only children by Hagar and Sarah, this leaves Keturah, the third wife of Abraham, as the mother of his other sons, as can be seen on this genealogy chart: Genealogy of The Báb and Bahá'u'lláh

    As you may know, Abraham had three wives: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah.

    It's my understanding that Baha'u'llah was descended from Abraham through both Sarah and Keturah, and that the line from Sarah included David as well (though I don't know at what point before Jesus it then split off).

    So anyway, the short answer is that yes, Baha'u'llah was a descendant of David.

    Is Baha'u'llah related to King David? | Interfaith forums
     
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  17. Neb

    Neb Active Member

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    There is NO genealogy that connects Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí to the line of David and you know that. “Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.” -Romans 3:2. That is the Old Testament and from the OT Christ was prophesied to be the Messiah and NOT Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí a Persian Shiite from the line of Ishmael.

    You are a Gentile and so as Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, AKA Baha’u’llah, therefore, you are included in the saving grace of God by faith in the Lord Jesus and not to anyone else or to any name.

    "Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;" - Philippians 2:9

    Only in the name of the Lord Jesus, God will hear you.

    "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.” John 14:13

    “If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.” - John 14:14

    “But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.” - John 14:26

    “Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.” - John 15:16
     
  18. Neb

    Neb Active Member

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    Because you hit a solid wall and it really stopped you from twisting the word of God.
    There is only one Messiah and that is the Lord Jesus. I gave you the link for that. Is Jesus the Messiah?
    From Sarah and Keturah? Really? Would a person come out from two women? Think about that.
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It is often used as a slam against other faiths, such is like saying "Your church has doctrines, mine has truths". :emojconfused:

    Generally speaking, "doctrine" is neutral as it generally deals with teachings put within the element of other related teachings. It intrinsically doesn't include where those teachings may have originated from.
     
  20. Neb

    Neb Active Member

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    Like I said before, you take Christ’s resurrection from Christianity then it becomes meaningless.

    If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,

    “Let us eat and drink,
    for tomorrow we die.” 1 Corinthians 15:32


    Do you believe in the virgin birth in the gospel of Matthew?
     
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