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Featured Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by adrian009, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I am not discounting archaeological evidence. We have differences as to how such evidence pertains to biblical truth. Where you understand the biblical accounts to be discredited I understand the Bible to be enriched through archaeology, as it pertains to man's becoming. To quote John XXIII, the Bible understood as "a narrative of man searching for himself."
     
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  2. MHz

    MHz Member

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    Once God and Adam were in the Ge:2 version of creation a mist was allowed in to water the land. If the Garden is restored in the 1,000 year reign the the Jordan River should like it does in Eze:47. From the size of the river we could even determine the rainfall (or mist) that fell on the area the River Jordan drains. That increase in flow might also happen should we enter a new ice-age and the climate change that comes with that.

    With a mist covering the land the light getting to the ground would be diffuse lighting show shadows as well as rainbows would not have been witnesses by people in the ground. Obviously if you climbed a mountain you would get above the mist and the blue sky and all other things we see would have been visible. In those days that would have been the realm of angelic beings, when that area could be seen by the people on the ground all angelic beings where in the Pit so no flying beings were seen by mankind after that.
    The area outside of the Garden area would have been the places where the angels parked themselves so any ruins found would have been created by them.

    The sun was for marking the days, by knowing the days you knew how to keep track of time. The sun and the moon would have been able to created a light on the ground, starts would not have been visible unto blue sky could be seen and for that to happen the mist would have to evaporate. If that is how the garden was created then that is how God would make it desolate again.

    Using the climate change that is possible with that radical of a change on the globe it would make all of North Africa and other parts in the Mid East would also have gotten the same rain the garden was getting. That change would also eliminate the winter/summer change we see and for that area it would be 'summer' all year long, the next day exactly the same as all the past ones. Over time Sumeria became the adopted name.
    If the desert belt of the world turned green during an ice-age it should also be lush and warm all year round, go north or south and you leave 'summer' and 'winter' is the place you have gone to, or some other name.

    The sons of God in Ge:6 would have built all the pyramids on the planet, the ones buried in China would have been buried by the same holy angels that removed the fallen angels from the surface of the earth. The one exception might be the Sphinx if it was a monument to the 'Lion of Judea' that they would have know would be the one who would inherit the earth.

    After the fall the fallen ones would have tried to destroy it with fire. I say that because the floor shows no sign of the effects of water erosion and the water coming down the vertical surfaces had to go somewhere yet there is no trace of where it went to. Another factor that points to water erosion being wrong is the material removed was piled up in the form of a temple right in front of the heavily eroded walls yet it shown no heavy sign of weathering.

    If the enclosure was used as a huge fire pit the flood would be insulated from most of the heat and the heating and cooling of the surface rock would accelerate the weather as it would flake off under it's own weight and blow away as dust.

    The vid included are some example of the craft-work fallen angels would be capable of during a time when the smartest creature that resemble man at all are still swinging on vines.


    part 38 "Impossible" statues, "Impossible" ancient jewellery, Moscow nuked, "Impossible" steel
     
  3. Athena Plato

    Athena Plato "Who do you say I am?"

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    ,
    Jesus_ascending_to_heaven.jpg

    Easter is the Festival of the Resurrection of Jesus from the Dead, Prescribed in the New Testament, Occurring the Third Day of His Cave Burial---After His Crucifixion by Romans and Jews at Calvary (“Temple of Aphrodite”) in 30 AD. It is the Culmination of the Love, Passion, and Sacrifice of Christ---Preceded by Lent, a Forty-Day Period of Fasting, Prayer and Penance.

    The Celebration is linked to the Passover and Exodus from Egypt---Recorded in the Old Testament; and the Last Supper, Sufferings and Crucifixion of Jesus---Preceding His Resurrection in the New Testament. Jesus gave True Meaning to the Passover by Demonstrating the Revelation of Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave” to His Twelve Disciples at the Last Supper, † Marking His departure from Earth into God’s Presence and the Forty Days after His Resurrection---His Ascension up to Heaven in the Company † Sight of His Disciples---After ensuring they remain in Jerusalem (“Measure of the Promised Land”)---Until the Coming of the Holy Spirit (“Enrichment”).

    The Resurrection of Jesus is the Foundation of Christian Faith---It is the Proof that Jesus is the Powerful Son of God and that His God shall judge the World in Righteousness. For those who trust in His Resurrection, “death is swallowed up in victory.” Anyone who chooses to follow God’s Son shall receive “new birth into a living hope through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.” They are Spiritually Resurrected with Him, so that they may Ascend into the Light---Walk in a New Way of Life---Receive Eternal Salvation (“Continued Enrichment”).

    In Luke’s Ascension Account, Jesus led the Disciples to Bethany, a village on the Mount of Olives, “And it came to pass, while He blessed them, He parted from them, and was carried up into Heaven. And they worshiped Him and returned to Jerusalem---(“Measure”)---with great joy!” Acts 1, Describes a Meal on the Mount of Olives, where Jesus instructs His Disciples to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit and His return “in the same way you have seen Him go into Heaven.”

    The Feast of Ascension, is a universally Celebrated Feast of the Christian liturgical year, along with the Passion, Easter and Pentecost. In the Catholic tradition it begins with a three-day “rogation” to ask for God's mercy, and includes a procession of torches and banners symbolizing Christ’s journey to the Mount of Olives, His entry into Heaven, the Extinguishing of the Paschal Candle and an All-Night Vigil---(Recreation of Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave”).

    The Site of Ascension is Mount Olivet (“Mount of Olives”). Early Christians honoured the Ascension of Christ in a Cave on the Mount. 384 AD, it was venerated on the present site, uphill from the Cave. In 390 AD, a Rich Roman Woman named Poimenia, financed the construction of the Original Church called, “Eleona Basilica” (Or “Olive Garden” or “Olive Tree” or “Mercy”). 420 AD, it was destroyed by Persians---Rebuilt, destroyed, and rebuilt again by Crusaders in 1200 AD, and then destroyed by Muslims---Leaving a 12 x 12 Meter Octagonal Structure---That remains today as a Christian Jewish Muslim Holy Site. The small round Church-Mosque holds a Sacred Stone Imprinted with the Footprint of Jesus on the Mount of Olives!

    Heavenly Ascents were common in the time of Jesus---Signifying Divine Approval and Deification of Exceptional Men. Reflected in the Major Christian Creeds and Confessional Statements, Ascension’s connected with the Exultation of Jesus---Where He took His seat at the right hand of God. The Culmination of the Mystery of Incarnation, † Marks the Completion of Jesus’ Physical Presence among His Apostles---Consummating the Union of His God with Good Men.

    Christian Art often shows Jesus Blessing an earthly group of people directly below Him, as His Blessing the Entire Church. Familiar Classical Ascension Prophets were Baruch, David, Enoch, Elijah, Ezra, Levi, Moses and the Greek Heroes Odysseus and Heracles (Hercules).

    According to Platonic Theory---The World of Ascension---Is a Three Part Universe with Heaven (the “Book of Profits”), above Flat Earth (“Assets”), Centered on Jerusalem (“Measure”) in the middle (“Dividing Line”) and Underworld (“Debt”) below. God’s Throne is seated on the vaulted roof of Earth (“Assets”). Humans Ascending from God’s Cave-Abel to See the Light (“Profit”)---Cain stand on Earth (“Assets”)---Look Directly at the Sky or Stars or Sun* and See the First Floor of Heaven (the “Book of Profits’”) Potential Return on Investment and “Shares.”

    *WARNING LOOKING DIRECTLY AT GOD OR THE SUN CAUSES BLINDNESS!*
     
    #723 Athena Plato, May 22, 2017
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you are in error. The body would not be the same if any part of it was not recognizable. The fact that there was a part (nail prints) that was the same does not alter that fact.
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe they would. They were willing to kill Lazarus. The problem for the Saducees was that a resurrected person put the lie to their belief that there was no resurrection of the dead and they cherished their belief more than the truth.
     
  6. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is the inspired Word of God. Are you saying the witnesses lied?

    I believe that depends on whether one believes God is credible or not.

    I believe that leaves you with a useless weak God who can't really do anything. Good luck with that. I believe that God can do anything He wants in any way He wishes.
     
  7. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I though Lazarus died of natural causes. And he was not resurrected, he was resuscitated.
     
  8. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    You thought wrong.
     
  9. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    "Easter" celebrations are ancient, and Pagan, and celebrate Spring Equinox.

    Easter is now determined as the first Sunday, after the first Full Moon, after the Spring Equinox.

    That moon possibly because of the change from the Lunar Calendar.

    The Christian scholar Bede tells us, - as he understood it, - that Easter derived from the Pagan Saxon Eostre.

    But it is much older.

    *
     
  10. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Nor according to John 11.
     
  11. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for taking the time to share your Christian Faith with me. Clearly the story and history around the resurrection means a great deal to you and you take inspiration from it.

    Although I believe in the same God, Jesus, and Bible as the Christians, I do not believe the resurrection literally happened. I thought this thread would be a useful opportunity to explore the alternative explanations for the resurrection narrative, or for those that believed to explain why they believe it happened in accordance with Conservative Christian beliefs that you have outlined so beautifully.
     
  12. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I believe it is the inspired word of God too and that the apostles were guided by God's unerring spirit. The resurrection is an phenomenon of profound spiritual importance central to the Christian narrative. However, I do not believe it happened literally.

    I have no problem with God's credibility.

    Nor do I have trouble with God's Power and Omnipotence. The Bible contains sacred writings that draw on mythology as well as actual history to teach profound spiritual truths.
     
  13. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    That is a reasonable answer. Hindus don't take too much inspiration from the biblical accounts just as Christians don't find meaning in the vast body of sacred texts of Hinduism.
     
  14. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I'm very aware of the beliefs of the orthodox/conservative Christians, You're welcome to share your beliefs about the resurrection narrative and explain why that makes sense to you.
     
  15. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for sharing. Do you think it simply a matter of faith or there is evidence to support that His resurrection was literally true.
     
  16. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    You don't understand the Baha'i Faith. It is not a synthesis of different religions any more than Christianity is a synthesis of Judaic though. Baha'u'llah brought a revelation from God as did Moses. Just because Jesus was a Jew who taught Jews, does not mean He taught Judaism. He brought a new message from God. Similarly Baha'u'llah who grew up a Muslim brought a new religion. Hope that makes sense.
     
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for sharing your views with me. I find your thought processes a little difficult to follow but appreciate the time you have taken to post.
     
  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for sharing your Christian beliefs about the physical resurrection. The way Acts were written is similar to apocalyptic style of writing, the book of Daniel, Revelations, and the Olivet Discourse being good examples. I would be wary of reading it as an historic account.

    Paul preached to the Gentiles or Greco-Romans and the resurrection narrative clearly conveyed powerful spiritual messages to his audience. They were accustomed through their beliefs in various deities to these kinds of stories. It is these narrative that made their way into the gospels. I do not feel obliged to accept the gospels as being literal historic accounts and see problems with this approach, most from a perspective of reason and science.

    On the other hand I'm aware that a belief in a literally resurrected Jesus is of profound importance for many Christians.
     
  19. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like just a bedtime story to you.
    upload_2017-5-24_20-54-3.jpeg

    Well, I have to admit - I have the same views before. But with what is happening to the world these days and what happened in the past - "those stories" gave me a wake up call.

    Matthew 24:4-8 New International Version (NIV)

    Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

    For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.
    upload_2017-5-24_21-1-19.jpeg
    I think this became true. They preached Jesus is the Messiah and have deceived many.

    You will hear of wars and rumors of wars
    One of the most publicized war was World War I
    upload_2017-5-24_21-6-28.jpeg

    upload_2017-5-24_21-5-34.jpeg
    And during these period in World War I - there were famines and earthquakes in various places.
    It also became true.

    Now it is intensifying:
    Famine 'largest humanitarian crisis in history of UN'
    Famine 'largest humanitarian crisis in history of UN'


    Intensity of earthquakes are increasing in magnitude and frequency over the past 100 years
    [​IMG]
    Earthquake - Wikipedia

    So these "Bible stories" are not fiction and when the world ends
    We would know for sure what comes in the end - resurrection of the saved and the damned
     
  20. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    The celebration of the risen Christ isn't pagan. You can hunt eggs or whatever but Jesus' resurrection is celebrated by Christianity because in it death is conquered. Nothing pagan about that.
     
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