Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

[omega2xx]

Mat. 1:18 uses a Jew named Yeshua to promote the Hellenistic doctrine of the demigod in contradiction to Deuteronomy 4:15,16.

Deut 4:15-16 does not have a name. That Jesus is the Christ is not a Hellenistic doctrine. It is la purely Christian one.

Acts 9:20 - Paul preached Jesus as the son of God.
Exodus 4:22,23 - The Lord said, "Israel is My Son."

Why are you trying to limit the number of sons God has? Gen 6 talks about the sons of God and that was long before Israel came into being.

II Timothy 2:8 - Paul declared that it was from his gospel aka Paul's gospel that Jesus resurrected.
II Samuel 12:23; Psalms 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc - The prophets deny bodily resurrection.

2 Sam 12:23 - David's son was in heaven, he had been resurrected from the dead.
Psa 49:12 & 20 - They both die.
Isa 26:14 - That only refers to the wicked.
Job 7:9 - That depends on which side of sheol the person goes to.

# And a few more which does not come to my mind right now.

Not if you understand them.

 

[omega2xx]

That assumes that there is a rational reconciliation possible. Contradictions clearly exist, except to the religious who refuse to even entertain the possibility.

Talk is cheap. Post a contradiction. You are assuming those who read, also study and understand..

 

[Cephus]

Talk is cheap. Post a contradiction. You are assuming those who read, also study and understand..

It's been done many times, Christians just make absurd excuses for why a clear and present contradiction isn't really a contradiction, even though it appears in black and white.

 

[omega2xx]

It's been done many times, Christians just make absurd excuses for why a clear and present contradiction isn't really a contradiction, even though it appears in black and white.

Talk is cheap. List one.

 

[omega2xx]

What matters is that through the Teachings of Jesus we too can be resurrected. We understand it differently. We can have spiritual life and not be spiritually dead. Through Christ the church was raised to new life.
Being born again is being made spiritually alive.The true church was never spiritually dead, only individuals.

Many Christians believe the resurrection is proof of Jesus' Divinity because only God has power over death. The Baha'i perspective, though different, also provides proof of Jesus sovereignty over death, in particular the death of the soul. Jesus' spiritual effect on the lives of His followers and the establishment of the Church demonstrates the power of His love and affirms the claims of His sovereignty. HIs Glorious Being and his Divine Perfections prove that He is a 'Manifestation' of God.

His resurrection only proves God accepted His sacrifice.

The physical resurrection is not necessary to prove Jesus' Divinity or Power to impart eternal life. Other world religions believe that God is All-Powerful including the power to provide eternal life. Why would God who is All-loving, All merciful, All-powerful, and omnipotent limit Himself to just one religion and prevent the salvation of so many?

God made rules. One must follow His rules to be resurrected.

The true meaning of the resurrection?

Jesus came from heaven:
John 3:13, John 6:38, John 6:41-2

The risen body of Christ is the Church:
Roman 12:5 'one body in Christ'
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 'baptised into one body'
1 Corinthians 12:25 'no schism in the body'
1 Corinthians 12:27 'you are the body of Christ'
Colossians 1:18 'He is the head of the body'
Ephesians 2:5-6 'members of His body, and His flesh'

The spiritual resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:42-4 'it is raised in a spiritual body'
1 Corinthians 15:50 'flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom'

Best wishes

I have been blessed with every spiritual blessing(Eph 1:3). It doesn't get any better than that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do they, or are they just conditioned that way ?.

A Jew knows more about his own scriptures than a Christian. Think that's what he's saying.

Okay. Carry on.

 

[leibowde84]

It is not my belief it is my experience.
I have seen my likeness and images.
Our likeness is our immortal soul, which is the being of light that people often encounter in Near Death Experiences.
Our images are all of the lives our immortal soul has lived.
This is how i know that the resurrection is the transformation of the body into spirit.
I asked my soul-self.

So, you believe in reincarnation? Doesn't that contradict what is claimed in the Bible/

 

[leibowde84]

It is a matter of attitude and if one has an open mind. Those who reject t the NT or the Bible for that matter, read until they think they have found a contradiction. They never try to reconcile the difference and that take serious study. I frequently address supposed contradictions, showing it is a lack of understanding.

Wouldn't your method of "study" be doing the same thing you are complaining about from the other side? By that I mean, you would be accepting the Bible as true/accurate and, with that in mind, try to reconcile any "contradictions"?

Wouldn't the best way to "study" it be to neither accept or reject the book as being true or false and see whether it seems plausible?

 

[leibowde84]

Prophecies I find compelling include the ancient Bible prediction that Israel would become a Jewish nation again on a SPECIFIC date, in the Gentile reckoning, May 15, 1948! WOW!

I'm sorry, but there is nothing in the Bible that makes a claim of the specific date as you state here. So, can you explain what you mean by this?

 

[allfoak]

So, you believe in reincarnation? Doesn't that contradict what is claimed in the Bible/

Yes, but not in the same way as the eastern religions.
And no, it only contradicts the Christian dogma.

The Bible is one of the most heavily edited books in history.

John 9:2
His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Notice that the man was born blind and his blindness was blamed on sin.
When did he sin that he would be born blind?
The only answer would be that he sinned in another life.

While Jesus said it was neither, the verse still makes it clear that the belief that we live many lifetimes was commonly accepted.

This is another verse that speaks to the idea that we live many lifetimes.

John 8: 1-11
1 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

There is also another verse that is not in most Bibles but does exist in some manuscripts.

This is an excerpt from the Gospel of the Nazirenes.

4.And a certain Rabbi, Nicodemus, came to Him by night for fear of the Jews, and said to Him, "How can a man be born again when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born again?"

5.Jesus answered "Except a man be born again of flesh and of spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God. The wind blows where it lists, and you hear the sound of it, but can not tell from where it comes or to where it goes."

6."The light shines from the East even to the West; out of the darkness. The sun rises and sets into darkness again; so is it with man, from the ages to the ages."

7."When it cometh from the darkness, it is that he has lived before, and when it goes down again into darkness, it is that he may rest for a little, and there after again exist."

8."So through many changes must you be made perfect, as it is written in the book of Job, 'I am a wanderer, changing place after place and house after house, until I come into the city and mansion which is eternal.'"

9.And Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?" And Jesus answered , "You are a teacher in Israel, and do not understand these things? Truly, we speak that which we know, and bear witness to that which we have seen, and you do not receive our witness."


10."If I tell you of earthly things, and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you of heavenly things? No one ascends into heaven, unless they descended out of heaven, even the son or daughter of man which is in Heaven."

 

[psychoslice]

A Jew knows more about his own scriptures than a Christian. Think that's what he's saying.

Okay. Carry on.

Do they really, a Jew may be able to memories their scriptures perfectly, but understanding them is another story.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do they really, a Jew may be able to memories their scriptures perfectly, but understanding them is another story.

If you're fitting a community of jews into one box, then you have a point. In a non religious comparison, I know more about my family than you do even if you are the fifth generation on down the line not because you are not part of the family, but because I am older than you (and an ancestor to you) so, of course, I'm going to know more. I was there when it happened.

I'ts basic logic. Has nothing to do with religion.

 

[psychoslice]

If you're fitting a community of jews into one box, then you have a point. In a non religious comparison, I know more about my family than you do even if you are the fifth generation on down the line not because you are not part of the family, but because I am older than you (and an ancestor to you) so, of course, I'm going to know more. I was there when it happened.

I'ts basic logic. Has nothing to do with religion.

Yes your right, that is knowing more, but when it comes to spiritual matters, knowing isn't enough, you need wisdom and spiritual discernment.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes your right, that is knowing more, but when it comes to spiritual matters, knowing isn't enough, you need wisdom and spiritual discernment.

We got pass step one acknowledging they at least have knowledge. Why would you think jews don't have more discernment and spiritual wisdom over their own scriptures than christians?

Remember, we're not talking about our point of view. Why wouldn't the jews know or have more wisdom in their own scriptures than christians would of the OT Torah?

 

[psychoslice]

We got pass step one acknowledging they at least have knowledge. Why would you think jews don't have more discernment and spiritual wisdom over their own scriptures than christians?

Remember, we're not talking about our point of view. Why wouldn't the jews know or have more wisdom in their own scriptures than christians would of the OT Torah?

Well I am not taking sides, my point is that you cannot simply say that the Jews know more, and Christians know less, or the other way around, that is all I was saying.

 

[omega2xx]

Wouldn't your method of "study" be doing the same thing you are complaining about from the other side? By that I mean, you would be accepting the Bible as true/accurate and, with that in mind, try to reconcile any "contradictions"?

Right. The difference is when I find what appears to be a contradiction, I continue studying other passages until I find an answer that eliminates to supposed contradiction. IMO, those who start with the presupposition that the Bible has contradictions, do not continue to study the problem. So far I have always found a solution.

Wouldn't the best way to "study" it be to neither accept or reject the book as being true or false and see whether it seems plausible?

Spiritual concepts are rarely if ever plausible. They must be accepted or rejected on faith alone.

There is a lot of truth in your quote from Osho

 

[Dawnofhope]

@omega2xx So no reasonable argument to prove a physical resurrection other than God is Omnipotent, therefore it must have happened?

 

[omega2xx]

@omega2xx So no reasonable argument to prove a physical resurrection other than God is Omnipotent, therefore it must have happened?

The argument depends of if there is an omnipotent God. IMO, the heavens are declaring that there is One. If your god is not omnipotent, it is not a God. Of Elohim is not omnipotent, how do you explain the creation?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The argument depends of if there is an omnipotent God. IMO, the heavens are declaring that there is One. If your god is not omnipotent, it is not a God. Of Elohim is not omnipotent, how do you explain the creation?

My God is Omnipotent, created the heavens, and sent his Son Jesus, who was spiritually resurrected from the dead so we could have eternal life.

 

[Beth Stitely]

My God in Omnipotent, created the heavens, and sent his Son Jesus, who was spiritually resurrected from the dead so we could have eternal life.

Has anyone caught their tail yet?